** the climate change thread, fires in Australia **

[Cyril Haearn]

I think this is worth talking about, I am very concerned about reports from Australia, thousands of people trapped on beaches, smoke blowing over to NZ, reminds one of a novel by Nevil Shute, 'On the Beach'

Mrs Merkel of Germany promised in her annual message to fight climate change, she must have some new and different policies in mind. One earnestly hopes

[Oldjohnw]

Prince William unveils 'Earthshot prize' to tackle climate crisis

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/202 ... _clipboard

I don't know the detail and it is endorsed by none other than Sir David Attenborough and many others, which is welcome.

Of course we know what to do but just won't do it.

[Polisman]

My fear is that the idiots keep on denying it for a few years more u until its patently obvious. But then they'll say 'soz, it's too late now, best gert used to it, can't do a thing now'. And while the world burns and floods and rising tides consume European towns and cities, these goons will retreat into their ex nuclear silo bunkers to live in style and gluttony to re-emerge to their new 'Eden' ten years after, a stone age world devoid of people and animals where they can simply start again, as the co2 levels retreat. Because there's no one left alive to burn anything.

There's reckoned to be about 8000 of these nuclear proof bunkers in the US alone. They're being snapped up by doomsday property developers. Decked out a little like this. Can't afford the 3 million dollar buy in fee? See you on the other side dude, perhaps not...

[youtube]hG1GEGi1e9U [/youtube]

[roubaixtuesday]

... these goons will retreat into their ex nuclear silo bunkers to live in style and gluttony to re-emerge to their new 'Eden' teen years after, a stone age world devoid of people and animals where they can simply start again, as the co2 levels retreat...

You need fear not on this count.

The adjustment time of CO2 in the atmosphere is of the order of centuries.

https://skepticalscience.com/co2-residence-time.htm

[gaz]

... these goons will retreat into their ex nuclear silo bunkers to live in style and gluttony to re-emerge to their new 'Eden' ten years after ...

The Stark Conspiracy.

[Polisman]

... these goons will retreat into their ex nuclear silo bunkers to live in style and gluttony to re-emerge to their new 'Eden' teen years after, a stone age world devoid of people and animals where they can simply start again, as the co2 levels retreat...

You need fear not on this count.

The adjustment time of CO2 in the atmosphere is of the order of centuries.

https://skepticalscience.com/co2-residence-time.htm

The best place to be in the event of a mass natural or man made disaster is apparently France. They have supplies of Uranium enough for 80 years and are totally self sufficient for food. The lights won't go out in Paris. They have a stash of steam powered locos hidden away for a disaster like this and the ability to close most of their borders with other countries in short order. And an excellent, well drilled military force to protect them.

I think this is a more likely scenario, those countries that have the foresight and technology to survive a medium duration disaster will simply barricade themselves in behind their borders and sit it out.

[Cugel]

My fear is that the idiots keep on denying it for a few years more u until its patently obvious. But then they'll say 'soz, it's too late now, best gert used to it, can't do a thing now'. And while the world burns and floods and rising tides consume European towns and cities, these goons will retreat into their ex nuclear silo bunkers to live in style and gluttony to re-emerge to their new 'Eden' teen years after, a stone age world devoid of people and animals where they can simply start again, as the co2 levels retreat. Because there's no one left alive to burn anything.

There's reckoned to be about 8000 of these nuclear proof bunkers in the US alone. They're being snapped up by doomsday property developers. Decked out a little like this. Can't afford the 3 million dollar buy in fee? See you on the other side dude, perhaps not...

[youtube]hG1GEGi1e9U [/youtube]

Those doomsdayers will merely prolong their misery. A world bereft of much of its current biology will not be survivable by humans - who evolved needing a great deal of the biology in the current environment - when the canned soup runs out. It may even be that the atmosphere changes to such a degree that there'll be insufficient oxygen generated; or too much.

I fear you're right to project more inaction or even an increase in the human activities that are driving the lethal rate of change to the climate. The extinction of more and more species is still going on apace; we will soon be one of them.

What to do? I know, let's vote in a loada nutter-grade strongmen, who will solve everything by doing what they fancy on any particular day, generally in a neolib sort of economic fashion and with a few wars eventually, to prove they are strong. This will at least be a distraction from the impending Mother of All Storms that scours the landmasses bare.

What first? Extinction by war or extinction by economics or extinction by superstorm? Perhaps extinction by a perfect storm (literally) of many mad human doings. No point in betting on any of them as the final culprit since we won't be here to collect any winnings. Why, even Trump will be a loser, down in his bunker-grave!

Cugel

[Polisman]

I think an earth bereft of much of its biology and with 6 billion less people in it would be a very attractive prospect for these goons. It may not be very pleasant for a long time, but just as climate change is a relatively (to us) short transition, maybe 50 years until mass extinction of animals and people occurs, it's not inconceivable that another 50 years might make living topside if not comfortable, then at least tolerable

Most of these bunkers, though their explicit aim is to provide survivability for 5 years minimum, have 'indefinite' tags attached to their advertising blurb. Hydroponic fruit and vegetable 'farms' and the one above even has a sustainable fish farm. Dentists surgery, state of the art medical facilities and a water and air filtration system that are designed to protect even from direct nuclear attack. Its not inconceivable that there isn't already a privately funded off world sanctuary for the super rich. Just waiting for the day...

Elon Musk had publicly stated that he wants to be the first person to die in Mars, of natural causes. Why the rush to get there? Mush reckons they'll have a permanently manned base in just 7 years time. Nasa has already developed a system to extract Oxygen from the Martian atmosphere making long term habitation very feasible. You have to ask yourself the pertinent question, if the earth isn't going to hell in burning handcart, why all the rabid preparations? Why all the fervent denials, when the truth is blazing right before or eyes?

Plans are afoot to even heat the atmosphere of Mars and make it more like earth, how reasonable this is I don't know, but here's a detailed explanation:

https://www.popsci.com/science/article/ ... ll-oxygen/


Here's another more in depth look at the same facility (I have no admiration for these people, I think it's a horrific scenario):

[youtube]Ftc6igmfWtk [/youtube]

[merseymouth]

Hi Polisman, You say that France can close its borders at short notice, with armed troops enough to protect itself?
That is what the said before both WW1 and WW2, so their track record on that score is more than a little shakey!
As I see it the area that was Vichy will expand greatly if troubles recur. T MMhe De Gaulle trait runs deep. IGICB

[Polisman]

Hi Polisman, You say that France can close its borders at short notice, with armed troops enough to protect itself?
That is what the said before both WW1 and WW2, so their track record on that score is more than a little shakey!
As I see it the area that was Vichy will expand greatly if troubles recur. T MMhe De Gaulle trait runs deep. IGICB

France is bordered by four main countries: Belgium, Germany, Switzerland and Italy. The French like you say have a history of blockading, the Maginot line for instance. But some 75 years later the technology and building advances make the building of a high, impenetrable wall along these borders a relatively straightforward and rapid exercise, especially when you engage the very capable French army and the world famous 6th Engineers.

I reckon they would probably keep a semi permeable border open with Spain as they have both got large supplies of sustainable fruit, veg and animal produce. Spain had for some time now been able to be totally self sufficient for renewable energy (last year they ran the entire country on solar and wind for six straight weeks, this year they plan to extend that to 3 months). Governments are likely planning right now for such eventualities and if not, then they are idiots.

Like I said above is not international government you need worry about, but a cabal of like minded billionaires, who have a dream of an empty world, which they could re-emerge to after the fire or whatever and start anew.

The Maginot line was constructed very quickly and was a difficult barrier to breach, both for the Germans and from the other side by the Americans in 1944-45 when they were trying to go the opposite direction.

[Audax67]

Faîtes pas bouffer les trolls, ce n'est pas leur faute qu'ils soient cons.

---o0o---

Merkel could help by restarting Germany's nuclear reactors. Clinging to fossil fuels while waiting for renewable power to come up to speed won't work.

[pwa]

The Domesday (correct spelling) or Armageddon scenario looks possible not because of a handful of billionaires and their fiendish plans, but because of you and me being too driven by short term gratification to give up flying, turn the heating down, and want less stuff. The billionaires are just inflated versions of us, with all our inadequacies. The odious Branson tempts us onto his flights with his cheesy smile, but we are complicit in the crime. We want to "see the world", even though we know that by doing that we are destroying it. If we want to see the villains we can just look in the mirror.

[merseymouth]

Hi again Polisman , Now where have we heard about a "High Tech, Impenetrable Wall"?
Oh yes, Trump Town! Delusional Twaddle. Laughable. Just reading about the invasion Hokey Cokey that Germany got up to would surely point out the weakness of such nonsense.
The originators of the Channel Tunnel saw the possibility of it being used for an invasion conduit, hence the halt called. Look how long it took to come to fruition? Remember also the action of a single person trying to walk through it brings about mayhem.
If an island nation such as the UK has issues over border security then what chance have a countries such as Holland, Belgium, Austria and France got, a quick flit down the motorway or a fast train loaded with troops will stir things up! Pure Jackanory stuff. MM

[Polisman]

Hi again Polisman , Now where have we heard about a "High Tech, Impenetrable Wall"?
Oh yes, Trump Town! Delusional Twaddle. Laughable. Just reading about the invasion Hokey Cokey that Germany got up to would surely point out the weakness of such nonsense.
The originators of the Channel Tunnel saw the possibility of it being used for an invasion conduit, hence the halt called. Look how long it took to come to fruition? Remember also the action of a single person trying to walk through it brings about mayhem.
If an island nation such as the UK has issues over border security then what chance have a countries such as Holland, Belgium, Austria and France got, a quick flit down the motorway or a fast train loaded with troops will stir things up! Pure Jackanory stuff. MM

The Maginot Line, a series of forts, barriers, mine fields and walls kept the might of the entire German army at bay for 7 weeks straight. A relatively low tech solution, (in terms of build, weaponry, defence and surveillance) it also kept the Americans at bay in 1944-45 against a determined amd retreating German army for 8 months . Clearly defences like this are very effective.

In a climate or natural disaster situation, it wouldn't be an army the French would be seeking to keep out, but only hordes of desperate, unarmed and starving Europeans whose mother country had not prepared adequately for disaster on this scale. A relatively simple task, for a well resourced and well trained French fighting force. The will to build the wall on the US doesn't exist, nor does the funding, that's the only impediment. The will to isolate one's country in a disaster scenario would be, as I'm sure you appreciate much more intense and determined then any in peacetime.

[Polisman]

Australian PM says 'be patient, our policies are working'.

17 people feared missing overnight.

Yeah, right...