reohn2 wrote:I don't condone such violent action by people on the platform.
By which you mean a protester who has been dragged off the roof of the train being beaten up by one or more commuters. And I agree. It does, however, demonstrate the tension that exists around this protest at the moment and the difficult job the police have on their hands.
reohn2 wrote:I don't condone such violent action by people on the platform.
By which you mean a protester who has been dragged off the roof of the train being beaten up by one or more commuters. And I agree. It does, however, demonstrate the tension that exists around this protest at the moment and the difficult job the police have on their hands.
Yer not wrong.
-----------------------------------------------------------
"All we are not stares back at what we are"
W H Auden
I'd like to copy here the message just sent out by one of our local XR coordinators, in response to an E-mail I sent her. If I may (my bold):
Dear all,
Apologies for a second email in two days. I wanted to share with you the shock and disappointment that I am sure many of you will share about the unfortunate ending to a very ill-judged action this morning on the tube.
XR were consulted on whether they wanted to target the tube and an overwhelming majority voted no - on the basis that these are ordinary people using sustainable transport to go about their daily lives. Unfortunately this was an autonomous group, and I am sure there will be much soul-searching about how to integrate the different strands that such a large movement inherently involves.
If you've been keeping up with the last 2 weeks you will see that the targets of disruption have been the large and powerful contributors to ecocide and misinformation - banks, arms companies, Murdoch press, Google etc.
It is worth remembering that this dark moment is set against 2 weeks of tireless and sacrificial involvement to create dozens of peaceful, purposeful actions, carried out with great solidarity, creativity, care and love.
Love and hope,
Suppose that this room is a lift. The support breaks and down we go with ever-increasing velocity. Let us pass the time by performing physical experiments... --- Arthur Eddington (creator of the Eddington Number).
100%JR wrote:As I said a few pages ago...rebels without a clue Extinction Rebellion started out being annoying now they're turning into a joke.
If you think "they're turning into a joke", perhaps you could point out which part of the message I posted above you think is a joke...
Having said that, I wouldn't expect less from a petrolhead like you...
Suppose that this room is a lift. The support breaks and down we go with ever-increasing velocity. Let us pass the time by performing physical experiments... --- Arthur Eddington (creator of the Eddington Number).
661-Pete wrote:I'd like to copy here the message just sent out by one of our local XR coordinators, in response to an E-mail I sent her. If I may (my bold):
Dear all,
Apologies for a second email in two days. I wanted to share with you the shock and disappointment that I am sure many of you will share about the unfortunate ending to a very ill-judged action this morning on the tube.
XR were consulted on whether they wanted to target the tube and an overwhelming majority voted no - on the basis that these are ordinary people using sustainable transport to go about their daily lives. Unfortunately this was an autonomous group, and I am sure there will be much soul-searching about how to integrate the different strands that such a large movement inherently involves.
If you've been keeping up with the last 2 weeks you will see that the targets of disruption have been the large and powerful contributors to ecocide and misinformation - banks, arms companies, Murdoch press, Google etc.
It is worth remembering that this dark moment is set against 2 weeks of tireless and sacrificial involvement to create dozens of peaceful, purposeful actions, carried out with great solidarity, creativity, care and love.
Love and hope,
Thanks. That message does clarify things. A rogue group doing their own thing in a way that does not help.
661-Pete wrote:I'd like to copy here the message just sent out by one of our local XR coordinators, in response to an E-mail I sent her. If I may (my bold):
Dear all,
Apologies for a second email in two days. I wanted to share with you the shock and disappointment that I am sure many of you will share about the unfortunate ending to a very ill-judged action this morning on the tube.
XR were consulted on whether they wanted to target the tube and an overwhelming majority voted no - on the basis that these are ordinary people using sustainable transport to go about their daily lives. Unfortunately this was an autonomous group, and I am sure there will be much soul-searching about how to integrate the different strands that such a large movement inherently involves.
If you've been keeping up with the last 2 weeks you will see that the targets of disruption have been the large and powerful contributors to ecocide and misinformation - banks, arms companies, Murdoch press, Google etc.
It is worth remembering that this dark moment is set against 2 weeks of tireless and sacrificial involvement to create dozens of peaceful, purposeful actions, carried out with great solidarity, creativity, care and love.
Love and hope,
No doubt XR have the message already but perhaps you might pass back to them in the strongest possible terms that some of their protests have gone beyond the point of helpfulness and are a hinderance to their message. I’m a peaceful chap and positive about green issues but had I been one of the effected commuters I’d have been outraged at the ‘protestors’ actions ... the ‘protesters’ thoroughly deserved the treatment given to them are are lucky that worse didn’t happen to them.
This country has a great tradition of peaceful protest and long may it be allowed to continue. What XR are doing at the moment is stretching what protest is acceptable and they can chose to moderate what they do or become regarded as a hinderance by the very people that they want to pursued. What a counterproductive and sad state of affairs that would be!
I note that there is some mention of an autonomous group being responsible for some ill judged action. The bottom line is that XR have become a recognised group and as such they must control their actions, at times that includes sanctions against those that refuse to accept directions from an organisation’s leadership.
Don’t fret, it’s OK to: ride a simple old bike; ride slowly, walk, rest and admire the view; ride off-road; ride in your raincoat; ride by yourself; ride in the dark; and ride one hundred yards or one hundred miles. Your bike and your choices to suit you.
Carlton green wrote:(snip) I’m a peaceful chap and positive about green issues but had I been one of the effected commuters I’d have been outraged at the ‘protestors’ actions ... the ‘protesters’ thoroughly deserved the treatment given to them are are lucky that worse didn’t happen to them.
(snip)
Perhaps you didn't notice the fundamental contradiction in your statement there? I have helpfully extracted it so you might contemplate it before deciding if you are "a peaceful chap" or an "outraged" fellow considering "worse" than that which didn't happen to the tube roofer who was merely beaten up for being inconvenient to some only medium-outraged commuters.
I am only hoping that you've hidden your baseball bat from yourself.
Cugel
“Practical men who believe themselves to be quite exempt from any intellectual influence are usually the slaves of some defunct economist”.
John Maynard Keynes
pwa wrote:XR protesters are targeting the Tube this morning. Public Transport! They are trying to disrupt public transport. I am confused. Aren't we supposed to be doing something "green" and responsible if we choose public transport? Wouldn't the best public transport be run on electricity and be hidden underground?
Story here. I'm frankly really disappointed to read of this turn of events. All I can say is, I hope this action was taken by only a minority of XR activists. I shall be writing to our local XR organiser to make my views known.
As has been pointed out in the Br**** thread, no-one's perfect....
If it is a rogue group they need reeling in because you don't win hearts and minds by disrupting the lives of potential allies. Having a go at the Tube will just annoy everyone and convince people that they don't have a serious message.
This is an attack on public transport.
As are any attacks on flights and airports.
'Give me my bike, a bit of sunshine - and a stop-off for a lunchtime pint - and I'm a happy man.' - Reg Baker
661-Pete wrote:Story here. I'm frankly really disappointed to read of this turn of events. All I can say is, I hope this action was taken by only a minority of XR activists. I shall be writing to our local XR organiser to make my views known.
As has been pointed out in the Br**** thread, no-one's perfect....
If it is a rogue group they need reeling in because you don't win hearts and minds by disrupting the lives of potential allies. Having a go at the Tube will just annoy everyone and convince people that they don't have a serious message.
This is an attack on public transport.
As are any attacks on flights and airports.
Yes, I think it is accurate that attacks on flights and airports are attacks on public transport too. I don’t fly and believe it bad for the environment but if I had a flight to make and it was delayed or disrupted by direct action then I’d be somewhat put out. I think it quite OK to persuade someone not to fly for the sake of the future but people also live in the moment and have reasons important enough to them to spend considerable sums on tickets not to mention the logistics of connecting flights, etc. Direct action puts XR in direct conflict with those reasons (which are important to the individual right now) and their purpose would be better served by persuasive means that look to change the passengers’ future actions.
There is however some difference between the urgency of day to day travel and that of commercial flights, to some extent flying is much more of a discretionary activity whilst commuting is much more a daily necessity and delays can have serious and direct implications that kick-in in the next hour or so.
I think that the word ‘attacks’ says it all. XR need to understand that physical attacks on transport are going to be counter productive to their message and that those passengers whose immediate lives are turned upside down by attacks on public transport are likely to vent their frustration on those deliberately causing the immediate upset.
Last edited by Carlton green on 17 Oct 2019, 9:39pm, edited 1 time in total.
Don’t fret, it’s OK to: ride a simple old bike; ride slowly, walk, rest and admire the view; ride off-road; ride in your raincoat; ride by yourself; ride in the dark; and ride one hundred yards or one hundred miles. Your bike and your choices to suit you.
So attacks on tube and trains are not supported by non-autonomous ER groups, so why not use media to make that more widely known? A letter or email to a sympathetic supporter when they accept that an action they don't agree with is done in their name doesn't make much sense to me. Considering attacking ordinary public using public transport to go about their business isn't going to help with carrying the public support or sympathy with you.
Imho attacking public transport and causing people problems and even distress (mother had daughter stuck between stations) is an own goal. So if they really don't condone it get that message out to those using their name but more importantly to general public. Shout that out loudly! Of course cynically I wonder if that letter or email quoted on here is honest. They've lost my trust I suppose.
100%JR wrote:As I said a few pages ago...rebels without a clue Extinction Rebellion started out being annoying now they're turning into a joke.
If you think "they're turning into a joke", perhaps you could point out which part of the message I posted above you think is a joke...
Having said that, I wouldn't expect less from a petrolhead like you...
Can you explain why you (wrongly) think I’m a petrol head?
This perhaps
100%JR wrote:I wouldn't tell anybody including my family or friends.I'd make sure my kids were OK but brothers/sister would never know.I have 40-odd cousins.They and all their offspring would soon come out of the woodwork and be my best "friend" .I'd move to a different area.Then nice house,preferably with land/woodland.Couple of Supercars(Lambo/Aston Martin/McClaren,couple of runaround cars(Range Rover,Bentley) couple of Superbikes,couple more bikes and a really nice custom VW T6.I'd buy three or four new rifles too. I'd have a Holiday home in The Lake District,One in France and an Villa in Mallorca with bike(s) kept at each one. I'd donate an annual sum to the two charities I support.I'd visit at least two new countries every year until I got bored. £170m should see me through and if there was owt left when I pegged it I'd leave it to my kids. I wouldn't even phone work to hand my notice in,I'd just never go again
'Give me my bike, a bit of sunshine - and a stop-off for a lunchtime pint - and I'm a happy man.' - Reg Baker
