Vanishing Topics?

Use this board for general non-cycling-related chat, or to introduce yourself to the forum.
Tangled Metal
Posts: 6315
Joined: 13 Feb 2015, 8:32pm

Re: Vanishing Topics?

Postby Tangled Metal » 15 Jan 2020, 10:43am

You are kidding! Cycling and in particular the cycling campaign group that is CUK, it's members and forum are more likely of a left leaning and green political spectrum. It's the nature of those campaigning for an out group to be so. Conservatives and liberals are more car centric.

User avatar
Mick F
Spambuster
Posts: 47789
Joined: 7 Jan 2007, 11:24am
Location: Tamar Valley, Cornwall

Re: Vanishing Topics?

Postby Mick F » 15 Jan 2020, 10:49am

Tangled Metal wrote:
Mick F wrote:Also, this is a coming together of like-minded folk

I think the issue with political discussions is that this isn't true. We're not like minded folk. Or not all like minded.
I think we are like-minded.

We're cyclists, but we disagree on many aspects of cycling I'm sure, just like politics, beer, wine, and the best place place to live.
We are not very different at all. It's just the detail when you dig down.
Mick F. Cornwall

mattheus
Posts: 1434
Joined: 29 Dec 2008, 12:57pm

Re: Vanishing Topics?

Postby mattheus » 15 Jan 2020, 10:57am

We are all (just) individuals!

User avatar
mjr
Posts: 14727
Joined: 20 Jun 2011, 7:06pm
Location: Norfolk or Somerset, mostly
Contact:

Re: Vanishing Topics?

Postby mjr » 15 Jan 2020, 11:08am

Tangled Metal wrote:You are kidding! Cycling and in particular the cycling campaign group that is CUK, it's members and forum are more likely of a left leaning and green political spectrum. It's the nature of those campaigning for an out group to be so. Conservatives and liberals are more car centric.

Not kidding. I think much of the Cycle Campaign Network, including my "home" group, started from Friends of the Earth and Greenpeace and so on partly because 1990s CTC was not green enough and refused to campaign locally (at best - we have some infamous instances of CTC officers back then opposing cycle campaigns). CUK is probably further left and more politically active than CTC was then, or than BC is now with their meek acceptance of government-appointed directors, but still a long way from being politically green.
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
All the above is CC-By-SA and no other implied copyright license to Cycle magazine.

Mike Sales
Posts: 4174
Joined: 7 Mar 2009, 3:31pm

Re: Vanishing Topics?

Postby Mike Sales » 15 Jan 2020, 11:19am

mjr wrote:
Tangled Metal wrote:You are kidding! Cycling and in particular the cycling campaign group that is CUK, it's members and forum are more likely of a left leaning and green political spectrum. It's the nature of those campaigning for an out group to be so. Conservatives and liberals are more car centric.

Not kidding. I think much of the Cycle Campaign Network, including my "home" group, started from Friends of the Earth and Greenpeace and so on partly because 1990s CTC was not green enough and refused to campaign locally (at best - we have some infamous instances of CTC officers back then opposing cycle campaigns). CUK is probably further left and more politically active than CTC was then, or than BC is now with their meek acceptance of government-appointed directors, but still a long way from being politically green.


Is not belief in collective action rather than individual effort inherently left-wing?

Oldjohnw
Posts: 2859
Joined: 16 Oct 2018, 4:23am
Location: Northumberland

Re: Vanishing Topics?

Postby Oldjohnw » 15 Jan 2020, 11:37am

merseymouth wrote:Morning all, Sadly my Latin fails at time of need!
I think I need "Custodet et Custodet"? No I'm not slagging off the mods, even though I'm more of a Rocker :lol: :lol: :lol: Take that as a cryptic clue as to the identity of the naughty boy
Naming and shaming might be one way forward, but some offenders are repeat offenders who don't appear to see the error of their ways?
We all have a duty to offer points and opinions whilst accepting that others will do likewise. Browbeating with "Citation Please" is just as much abuse as directly abusing others, accept some things as having been noticed by others, but those persons will not have filed away all relevant data for academic standard retrieval, many of us ain't that way wired!
Try the odd humerus post, smiling uses more facial muscles thn frowning. TTFN MM


Asking for evidence is not abuse.
John

mattheus
Posts: 1434
Joined: 29 Dec 2008, 12:57pm

Re: Vanishing Topics?

Postby mattheus » 15 Jan 2020, 11:40am

mjr wrote:
Tangled Metal wrote:You are kidding! Cycling and in particular the cycling campaign group that is CUK, it's members and forum are more likely of a left leaning and green political spectrum. It's the nature of those campaigning for an out group to be so. Conservatives and liberals are more car centric.

Not kidding. I think much of the Cycle Campaign Network, including my "home" group, started from Friends of the Earth and Greenpeace and so on partly because 1990s CTC was not green enough and refused to campaign locally (at best - we have some infamous instances of CTC officers back then opposing cycle campaigns). CUK is probably further left and more politically active than CTC was then, or than BC is now with their meek acceptance of government-appointed directors, but still a long way from being politically green.


Of course there are different strengths of green/leftism. (I'm not surprised to hear that Greenpeace is a greener organisation than most ;) )

But do you actually think this forum is right-leaning? Your first post was kinda confusing, with the smiley...

User avatar
mjr
Posts: 14727
Joined: 20 Jun 2011, 7:06pm
Location: Norfolk or Somerset, mostly
Contact:

Re: Vanishing Topics?

Postby mjr » 15 Jan 2020, 11:42am

Mike Sales wrote:Is not belief in collective action rather than individual effort inherently left-wing?

No. For example, some of the most extreme right wing groups have sought to form a "national unity", "national front" or other collective action. The most obvious difference to me is that right wing collective action is often based on some concept of a nation (which may not coincide with any current political state and participation may not be voluntary, both often sources of conflict) rather than the international approach desired by many left wing groups.
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
All the above is CC-By-SA and no other implied copyright license to Cycle magazine.

User avatar
mjr
Posts: 14727
Joined: 20 Jun 2011, 7:06pm
Location: Norfolk or Somerset, mostly
Contact:

Re: Vanishing Topics?

Postby mjr » 15 Jan 2020, 11:43am

mattheus wrote:But do you actually think this forum is right-leaning? Your first post was kinda confusing, with the smiley...

No: I wrote that it has a right-leaning tendency (group, subset) among its members. I think that's more clear in some of the non-cycling political Tea Room topics, but it does also appear in the form of the more extreme personal responsibility posts in some cycling topics
Last edited by mjr on 15 Jan 2020, 11:46am, edited 1 time in total.
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
All the above is CC-By-SA and no other implied copyright license to Cycle magazine.

Tangled Metal
Posts: 6315
Joined: 13 Feb 2015, 8:32pm

Re: Vanishing Topics?

Postby Tangled Metal » 15 Jan 2020, 11:46am

Some people are more left leaning/ green than others. When you think Greenpeace and UK isn't green enough for you or current labour and cuk forum isn't left enough for you then that doesn't make them right wing. Just that your further to one side than you thought.

Tangled Metal
Posts: 6315
Joined: 13 Feb 2015, 8:32pm

Re: Vanishing Topics?

Postby Tangled Metal » 15 Jan 2020, 11:49am

mjr wrote:
mattheus wrote:But do you actually think this forum is right-leaning? Your first post was kinda confusing, with the smiley...

No: I wrote that there is a right-leaning tendency (group, subset) among its members. I think that's more clear in some of the non-cycling political Tea Room topics, but it does also appear in the form of the more extreme personal responsibility posts in some cycling topics

So you can't have personal responsibility if you're leftie then? It's the system that dun it I guess. The establishment made me do it?

The only extreme view is the one that involves no acceptance that we are responsible for the choices we make.

Mike Sales
Posts: 4174
Joined: 7 Mar 2009, 3:31pm

Re: Vanishing Topics?

Postby Mike Sales » 15 Jan 2020, 11:50am

mjr wrote:
Mike Sales wrote:Is not belief in collective action rather than individual effort inherently left-wing?

No. For example, some of the most extreme right wing groups have sought to form a "national unity", "national front" or other collective action. The most obvious difference to me is that right wing collective action is often based on some concept of a nation (which may not coincide with any current political state and participation may not be voluntary, both often sources of conflict) rather than the international approach desired by many left wing groups.



"The workers united will never be defeated."
Free collective bargaining as opposed to individual blacklegs.
Solidarity, brothers!
Last edited by Mike Sales on 15 Jan 2020, 11:55am, edited 1 time in total.

mattheus
Posts: 1434
Joined: 29 Dec 2008, 12:57pm

Re: Vanishing Topics?

Postby mattheus » 15 Jan 2020, 11:52am

mjr wrote:
mattheus wrote:But do you actually think this forum is right-leaning? Your first post was kinda confusing, with the smiley...

No: I wrote that it has a right-leaning tendency (group, subset) among its members. I think that's more clear in some of the non-cycling political Tea Room topics, but it does also appear in the form of the more extreme personal responsibility posts in some cycling topics


So you're saying that a subset of the members have one view - but it differs from that of the other members? And that this is more clear in the politics Topics?

Have I correctly summarised your (somewhat controversial) position?


<We don't really have a proper friendly teasing wink smiley, but if we did I might deploy it at this point>

User avatar
661-Pete
Posts: 9470
Joined: 22 Nov 2012, 8:45pm
Location: Sussex

Re: Vanishing Topics?

Postby 661-Pete » 15 Jan 2020, 11:58am

Oldjohnw wrote:Asking for evidence is not abuse.
Sometimes it can be. :lol:
Suppose that this room is a lift. The support breaks and down we go with ever-increasing velocity.
Let us pass the time by performing physical experiments...
--- Arthur Eddington (creator of the Eddington Number).

Oldjohnw
Posts: 2859
Joined: 16 Oct 2018, 4:23am
Location: Northumberland

Re: Vanishing Topics?

Postby Oldjohnw » 15 Jan 2020, 12:00pm

661-Pete wrote:
Oldjohnw wrote:Asking for evidence is not abuse.
Sometimes it can be. :lol:

:)

If someone makes a huge unsubstantiated claim it is not unreasonable to question the source.
John