Celebrating the E.U.

[Mike Sales]

Perhaps we should have a celebration at the end of the month, but in the sense that a funeral celebrates the life of the deceased, not the regrettable fact of their death.
We could make an account of all the good being a member of the community has brought to the UK, and all the help it has given to other members.

[NATURAL ANKLING]

Hi,
If all the other EU members thought the same as you maybe you would have some grounds for a event whatever.
But that's simply not the case is it, other members also don't like the way things have gone and the way things are run by the big guns like France Germany.

If all things EU were good we would've also adopted the euro?
Almost certainly would've been more difficult to leave, nearly as difficult as what some people in Scotland want for the future (indy)

[roubaixtuesday]

An excellent idea - if the govt and leave campaign actually wanted to bring the country together, mark the change without triumphalism or rancour.

As NAs response vividly shows, however there is no chance whatever of such an approach happening: the government cannot survive contact with the truth on Europe, its support depends on maintaining the narrative that has brought it to power.

[Mike Sales]

The one-time communist countries of Eastern Europe were keen enough to join, though some of their rulers now want the economic benefits without having the human rights obligations.

[roubaixtuesday]

The one-time communist countries of Eastern Europe were keen enough to join, though some of their rulers now want the economic benefits without having the human rights obligations.

One thing Brexit has achieved is convincing continental Europeans of the value of the EU.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/worl ... 88126.html

[Mike Sales]

If all things EU were good we would've also adopted the euro?

When I reread my post I find no claim that all things Euro are good. That sort of thinking, which wants to reduce complex things to a simple certainty is a Leaver trait, I find.
As I remember, it was Gordon Brown's five tests which kept us out of the Euro. I thought them quite sensible.

The five economic tests were the criteria defined by the UK treasury under Gordon Brown that were to be used to assess the UK's readiness to join the Economic and Monetary Union of the European Union (EMU), and so adopt the euro as its official currency. In principle, these tests were distinct from any political decision to join.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_economic_tests

[Cyril Haearn]

Right again Mike, the EU has provided 75 years of peace and prosperity

I used to have "I love the EU" stickers but not now, just realised why: I thought everyone loved the EU

Maybe we have been lucky to live in this time, could things really get worse in future ? I think somehow maybe not, the rUK shall still tootle along somehow with or without

[Mick F]

Belonging to a peaceful Europe and co-operating and being part of the whole thing ......... I doubt anyone would disagree with.
It's the Union of Europe that isn't wanted by many.

Sorry, got the name wrong!
It's the European Union and not the Union of Europe of course.

What's the difference though?

[bigjim]

Right again Mike, the EU has provided 75 years of peace and prosperity

Who for?

[Carlton green]

Belonging to a peaceful Europe and co-operating and being part of the whole thing ......... I doubt anyone would disagree with.
It's the Union of Europe that isn't wanted by many.

Sorry, got the name wrong!
It's the European Union and not the Union of Europe of course.

What's the difference though?

Hit the nail in the head there Mick. Personally I think that there’s a lot to like about a trading arrangement but to my mind the whole thing simply got out of hand. To me it seems peculiar that the Scottie’s want to get out of being in the U.K. but are instead happy to be in what will end up as the Union of Europe.

I’m really not sure what the EU has done for the U.K. that we couldn’t have done for ourselves instead. As for peace in Europe well that is very valuable particularly as in the past it’s too often been U.K. Armed Forces who have (had to) resolved matters - at a high cost of life and funds too.

[PDQ Mobile]

I’m really not sure what the EU has done for the U.K. that we couldn’t have done for ourselves instead.

There is a distinct and likely possibilty that you may be about to find out in the quite near future.

[roubaixtuesday]

And the thread descends into the usual erroneous and irrelevant cliches on the EU rather than addressing the rather thoughtful point actually made at the top.

[Hobbs1951]

And the thread descends into the usual erroneous and irrelevant cliches on the EU rather than addressing the rather thoughtful point actually made at the top.

Agree with that.

John.

[Tangled Metal]

What evidence is there that the EU is completely responsible for peace in Europe? Serious question, how do we know that isn't just attributing what the effect of WWII had on the European collaboration project that became the EU? It's not like we can go back in time and try it without the EU and precursors to see what would happen.

[mercalia]

Right again Mike, the EU has provided 75 years of peace and prosperity

I used to have "I love the EU" stickers but not now, just realised why: I thought everyone loved the EU

Maybe we have been lucky to live in this time, could things really get worse in future ? I think somehow maybe not, the rUK shall still tootle along somehow with or without

I dont agree. The reason why we have had peace in ( western) Europe is that the Age of the Great Powers ( Gt Britain, France Germany and Italy ) came to an end after WW2 and their world wide ( colonial) competition ended and they sank back into their borders, where the populations wanted to have a good life not being the puppets of mad leaders any more? The EU didnt create the peace, it was a result of it.

It is easy to forget that once upon a time Gt Britain ruled the waves and easy to forget how things used to be: I remember seeing an inventory of the Royal Navy before Wilson started to down size. There were about 20-30 or so aircaft carriers!!!!!

Just 100 years ago this was the state of play when the germans surrendered their navy after WW1

click to enlarge ( the ships in the Middle in black are German)

we now struggle to afford what we have? why? parltly because the people in democracys wont suffer privations, Universal suffrage ( & education to use it) is why there has been peace in Europe