Movement? (Irish Question)

[merseymouth]

Hello again, Noticed that Sinn Fein may have extracted a route to re-unification from the DUP?
It has been reported in the media that they have, as a price for supporting their effort to avoid an election, that a plebiscite will be held over the 6 counties!
That is quite an achievement in itself, but should the majority opt for the DeValera Wish then we might get ourselves from under the weight of a historic wrong?
Never saw that coming! TTFN MM

[windmiller]

De Valera viewed the North as a poisoned chalice and refused to side with the UK against Nazi Germany. Much to their Governments eternal shame. Thousands of Irishmen from the south showed what they thought of this and stood and fought beside us.

[carpetcleaner]

Hello again, Noticed that Sinn Fein may have extracted a route to re-unification from the DUP?
It has been reported in the media that they have, as a price for supporting their effort to avoid an election, that a plebiscite will be held over the 6 counties!
That is quite an achievement in itself, but should the majority opt for the DeValera Wish then we might get ourselves from under the weight of a historic wrong?
Never saw that coming! TTFN MM

Will the referendum be advisory only so that the government can ignore the result if clever and educated people think the electorate didn't fully understand the issues involved?

[merseymouth]

Hi Windymiller, That statement is not disputed! But "The Emergency" does not in itself define Dev's agenda! He was still levering for the return of the 6 counties even as war raged and good Irish folk at sea and on land were doing their bit against Hitler's regime.
But move forward, Varadkar has leanings towards that end, so let's try to stay current.
The DUP are wounded, Sinn Fein knows that, so does this indicate a majority on the island of Ireland for an end to this waste of human life?
Learn from history, but don't let us get bogged down sorting out the crimes & lies of centurys past. IGICB MM

Hi Carpetcleaner, I think that SF will not be playing Nicola Sturgeons type of games, for them a vote is a vote.
If their wasn't a requirement for an "Oath of Allegiance" at Westminster SF would have had folk keeping the issue in the forefront of the political agenda.

[Tangled Metal]

I thought the good Friday agreement meant the end to loss of life.

(Unless you're the enemy of the IRA that still survives, armed and active in one form or another of course).

[merseymouth]

Hi TM, The "Loss of Life" over Ireland has gone on for centuries, it is important to remember that.
If one reads Ireland's Own magazine you will read of how the deaths that occurred in 1919 -1920 still get back to recall! This is the 100th Anniversary of the first "Bloody Sunday", it looms large in some minds! The belief is Old Crimes Cast Long Shadows. MM

[Cyril Haearn]

It is worth remembering even things that happened centuries ago

Frank-Walter Steinmeier, President of Germany, has just been in Israel, I think his speech was well received, he used English instead of German, delivered a speech in Hebrew too

[merseymouth]

Hi Bryn, I agree with that, but my slant was if we don't seriously address the "Irish Question" now we're doomed to perpetuate the cycle!
The GFA was meant to be a stepping stone, not an end in itself, so the lack of dialogue since then has not proved useful.
[moderated] MM

[Carlton green]

I would guess that the historic links between Ireland and Liverpool are not well known or understood in much of the U.K. so MM is located in an area of this country that has ties to another.

As for whether reunification of North and South will ever happen the situation is both complex and emotive so I can but guess. However, with the separation of the ‘Church of Churches’ from the (Southern) State I'd have thought that some significant barriers to that have now been removed and that more might follow. Best to watch from a distance and let them decide for themselves.

[Tangled Metal]

Some scouse comedian (can't tell you who because there's been too many comedians from liverpool) who said the liverpool accent is like Irish with a cold.

Long been Irish connection with liverpool. Welsh too which explains my liverpool routes.

Iirc I used to hear stories of protests in or on the roof of an Irish centre in liverpool when I was at uni there. Obviously not from when I was there but from the 70s. I believe prejudice against the Irish was strong even in a city with such strong links to Ireland.

[merseymouth]

Hello again, I will moderate my post, to save me from a well deserved snip by the Mods, Mia Culpa!
My family affiliation does not come from my Liverpool roots, correct spelling. It originates on my paternal side from Manchester, which had more ethnic minority riots than Liverpool, Irish, Italian and the Jewish community. Very stupid, so folk hid their ethnicity. They burnt each others places of worship as well. Very wrong and self harming! Such things never took place in Liverpool.
My great grand-father was born in Dublin, but he was of course born British! Part of the all conquering British empire, which is surely the root of many issues still ongoing.
But this year poses very worrying times? All through the year 1920 atrocities were committed on both sides of the Independence issue, with serious loss of life. So events will certainly be elevated in the awareness in the south, families still have direct knowledge of events. The Bogside in Derry was subjected to a Loyalist attack, so the parties in north have bad memories as well. This is not to raise tensions, merely to state fact.
I honestly hope that the horrors of that energises all sides is used to get around the table to put an end to this bloody conflict. Move forward from the pause that was intended within the GFA! Ethnic cleansing wherever it takes place is wrong, let us hope that one day we outgrow the brutalistic stage of human behaviour which still shows itself on this planet. Pax MM

[Mike Sales]

No border down the Irish Sea?

The “straightforward” document that Northern Irish businesses will need to complete to send goods to Great Britain after Brexit is a complex form that includes 31 data elements, it can be revealed.
The Freight Transport Association has raised concerns that hauliers could be fined if they get elements of the “exit summary declaration” wrong, and is calling on the EU and the UK to remove it during their negotiations.

The news infuriated the Democratic Unionist party, which had been promised there would be no border down the Irish Sea, and was swiftly downplayed by Barclay, who told the DUP MP Nigel Dodds days later that it was a “fairly straightforward” form.
Days later Boris Johnson was accused of misleading the public when he told business leaders on a visit to Northern Ireland that they could throw the form in the bin.

Businesses sending goods from Great Britain to Northern Ireland will not be immune either. They face a form involving up to 45 elements. “Only three of these are optional, meaning that 42 data fields are mandatory,” Bastidon said.
The legal basis of the forms is contained in a complex 557-page document, which is almost incomprehensible to an untrained eye.
Transport chiefs and manufacturers must match codes in the document with a complex list of coded data every time goods are booked on to a ferry.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/jan/24/revealed-complex-post-brexit-checks-for-northern-irish-traders