Paying for Care

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Mike Sales
Posts: 4164
Joined: 7 Mar 2009, 3:31pm

Re: Paying for Care

Postby Mike Sales » 5 Feb 2020, 4:30pm

Tangled Metal wrote:Incidentally, jumping into very cold water could be a very fast way to go. Sometimes you get a sudden heart attack if not used to it. If done on your own you'll go quickly without pain. The cold certainly helps there I reckon.


Yes, I have read this about falling into the sea, which is usually chilly. Many are rescued undrowned and without a heart attack though. I once read a very convincing and grisly account of what drowning must feel like, which rather put me off falling off my boat.

Tangled Metal
Posts: 6310
Joined: 13 Feb 2015, 8:32pm

Re: Paying for Care

Postby Tangled Metal » 5 Feb 2020, 4:39pm

I remember reading about how to get out of a stopper at the foot of a waterfall, rapid or weir. Basically you have to completely relax your body which should eventually result in you dropping into the flow of water that goes straight through at the bottom of the hydraulic.

I always thought that would take some cojones to do. However I've done that unintentionally so it does work. I'm here to report it.

pete75
Posts: 12410
Joined: 24 Jul 2007, 2:37pm

Re: Paying for Care

Postby pete75 » 5 Feb 2020, 5:16pm

Tangled Metal wrote:
pwa wrote:
Cugel wrote:
My personal preference would be for euthanasia to be a normal option within the NHS for those who are in a fit mental state to make such a choice for themselves. But, one way or another, should I feel myself to be going doo-wally or otherwise permanently decrepid, I'll try to find a way to euthanize myself before I become a very unhappy burden not just upon The State but everyone else around me.

Cugel


I emphasise that I hope you don't do this anytime soon, but while you still have the use of your legs there is a relatively simple way of ending it all. Just walk off into a remote area (Brechfa Forest?) late at night when the temperature is sub zero, and lie down somewhere to gaze at the stars until nature takes you. I once got borderline hypothermic and recognised it for what it was and did something about it. But once you are past the shivering you become less uncomfortable, more drowsy, and more resigned to fate. It is top of my list of ways of ending it, should the need arise.

I don't see this as an alternative to Care, though.

Drowning is another peaceful death once you're past the panic. You just go to sleep


A 12 bore is the preferred method in these parts.

Mike Sales
Posts: 4164
Joined: 7 Mar 2009, 3:31pm

Re: Paying for Care

Postby Mike Sales » 5 Feb 2020, 5:22pm

Resumé
By Dorothy Parker
Razors pain you;
Rivers are damp;
Acids stain you;
And drugs cause cramp.
Guns aren’t lawful;
Nooses give;
Gas smells awful;
You might as well live.

Mike Sales
Posts: 4164
Joined: 7 Mar 2009, 3:31pm

Re: Paying for Care

Postby Mike Sales » 5 Feb 2020, 5:39pm

I know I'm unhappy
I know things aren't right
For instance last week
I got drunk every night

I know that I'm angry
I know I'm afraid
I rarely make love
I mostly get laid

I know I'm unhealthy
No doctor would doubt
My dreams are all bad
And my hair's falling out

When you get the blues
And you want shoot yourself in the head
It's alright, it's alright
Go ahead

Do the monkey, do the pony
Do the slop, do the boogaloo twist
Cut your throat, Cut your throat
Cut your wrist

When you tire of worldly toil
Shuffle off this mortal coil
Turn your body back to soil
It's okay, it's okay

When you get hung up
Hang yourself up by the neck
What the hell, what the hell
What the heck


A less cheerful song from Loudon Wainwright III.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQOT_7lyojY

reohn2
Posts: 37422
Joined: 26 Jun 2009, 8:21pm

Re: Paying for Care

Postby reohn2 » 5 Feb 2020, 5:59pm

Tangled Metal wrote:There is another issue with adult social care (elderly) and that is down to the history of entrepreneurs taking over or opening care homes as a business opportunity. There was a period of time they actually made good money out of the sector. One of the original dragons in dragons den made a nice bundle building/ opening care homes, even buying out single site or other small operators. Get in, cost cut to the bone and milk it until the business doesn't look as profitable then sell up quickly. I would bet a lot of the ones that closed were once owned by these business chancer types who offloaded before costs rose and revenues dropped.

t certainly went downhill as a business opportunity and not just because of austerity. I know someone who worked for that dragon and later for someone running two local care homes until retirement. She said things were bad for years before she retired dating back to 2008 or earlier.

Incidentally I believe that person might be the only one to get more money and an apology from that dragon,, but that's another story.

Isn't capitalism great? :?
-----------------------------------------------------------
I cycle therefore I am.

PDQ Mobile
Posts: 3355
Joined: 2 Aug 2015, 4:40pm

Re: Paying for Care

Postby PDQ Mobile » 5 Feb 2020, 6:22pm

Mike Sales wrote:
Resumé
By Dorothy Parker
Razors pain you;
Rivers are damp;
Acids stain you;
And drugs cause cramp.
Guns aren’t lawful;
Nooses give;
Gas smells awful;
You might as well live.


You (she) missed out going to the Vet!

I have several times in my life been with dear (mostly) old friends "put to sleep".

The gentle slipping away from pain and suffering whilst terribly sad is nevertheless extraordinarily tranquil.

We need further adult discussion about such things in the UK.
But we seem to leave it up to our rather more courageous Euro neighbours to do that.

reohn2
Posts: 37422
Joined: 26 Jun 2009, 8:21pm

Re: Paying for Care

Postby reohn2 » 5 Feb 2020, 6:51pm

Nothing matters what if it did?
There's more than one way to make a quid
You'll be farting through silk if you stick with me kid
I'm the luckiest guy alive
Life is one big skive
The luckiest man alive
Just waiting for the trouble to arrive

On the fairway I'm under par
At the boat club they call me Commissar
With a monogrammed tankard a-hanging in the bar
I'm the luckiest man alive
I got a kick-ass drag boat I ain't allowed to drive
The luckiest man alive
Just waiting for the trouble to arrive

Broad daylight killing spree
I heard it on the BBC
Expert opinion tends to agree
Worst things apparently happen at sea

Anyway don't worry 'bout me
A better situation you couldn't contrive
The luckiest guy alive
Just waiting for the trouble to arrive

Time was it was the whole of the law
That kept my literal feet on the floor
But gravity ain't my friend no more
Oh no that's for sure
But I'm the luckiest guy alive
I got a facial tattoo saying please revive
The luckiest guy alive
Just waiting for the trouble to arrive

John Cooper Clarke.

EDIT,must be read in a Salford accent for authenticism
-----------------------------------------------------------
I cycle therefore I am.

User avatar
Cugel
Posts: 2958
Joined: 13 Nov 2017, 11:14am

Re: Paying for Care

Postby Cugel » 5 Feb 2020, 9:39pm

Tangled Metal wrote:Please be with your dogs through the whole process when you get them put down. That's very, very important.

If you want to know why then Google for the south African vet's plea for that. I read it last summer before leaving our dog with family while we went cycle touring. It really affected me and you'll see why if you ever read it.

I'm serious, about this, please be there when/ if it happens.


As for all those who habitually have the dogs & cats, me and t'ladywife have suffered at those times when we have to outlive them. In all cases we have the vet to the house, not the beast to the vet. They die in my arms, which is heart-rending but still a relief for them and us.

If only we could do this for our loved humans. Instead, so many end up dying in some hospital, not-so-caring home or other place not of their choosing, often following months or even years of unwanted & untold suffering and degradation. We do this to each other for ideological reasons engendered through religious traditions well past their sell-by date. It's time we moved away from such bad habits.

Cugel

Mike Sales
Posts: 4164
Joined: 7 Mar 2009, 3:31pm

Re: Paying for Care

Postby Mike Sales » 5 Feb 2020, 10:01pm

reohn2 wrote:John Cooper Clarke.

EDIT,must be read in a Salford accent for authenticism


As it happens I have just listened to Dirty Old Town by Shane MacGowan and the Pogues. Pure gold.

Tangled Metal
Posts: 6310
Joined: 13 Feb 2015, 8:32pm

Re: Paying for Care

Postby Tangled Metal » 5 Feb 2020, 11:15pm

pete75 wrote:
Tangled Metal wrote:
pwa wrote:
I emphasise that I hope you don't do this anytime soon, but while you still have the use of your legs there is a relatively simple way of ending it all. Just walk off into a remote area (Brechfa Forest?) late at night when the temperature is sub zero, and lie down somewhere to gaze at the stars until nature takes you. I once got borderline hypothermic and recognised it for what it was and did something about it. But once you are past the shivering you become less uncomfortable, more drowsy, and more resigned to fate. It is top of my list of ways of ending it, should the need arise.

I don't see this as an alternative to Care, though.

Drowning is another peaceful death once you're past the panic. You just go to sleep


A 12 bore is the preferred method in these parts.

A local farmer did that near here a good few years ago. Last year another one (son of farmer iirc) was found swinging from a canal bridge. Apparently not a nice way to end things.

Oh and do not even think of suicide by train. You will leave your face and death imprinted into the memory of the train driver. Years ago I read a figure in the then BR company newspaper a figure that 4 out of 5 train drivers who witness their train hitting a jumper cannot drive a train again. Many struggle to get over it. A selfish way to go even if it's very quick for you.

This is a nice topic, perhaps best to drop this line of posts.

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al_yrpal
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Joined: 25 Jul 2007, 9:47pm
Location: Cully
Contact:

Re: Paying for Care

Postby al_yrpal » 6 Feb 2020, 7:37am

+1

Al
Touring on a bicycle is a great way to explore and appreciate the countryside and towns you pass through. What do you do to make a difference?

reohn2
Posts: 37422
Joined: 26 Jun 2009, 8:21pm

Re: Paying for Care

Postby reohn2 » 6 Feb 2020, 8:06am

Cugel wrote:....If only we could do this for our loved humans. Instead, so many end up dying in some hospital, not-so-caring home or other place not of their choosing, often following months or even years of unwanted & untold suffering and degradation. We do this to each other for ideological reasons engendered through religious traditions well past their sell-by date. It's time we moved away from such bad habits.

Cugel

Quite!
And the worst of it is that should we help our loved ones end their lives humanely to save the from that degradation we break the law and are criminalised for doing it.
-----------------------------------------------------------
I cycle therefore I am.

reohn2
Posts: 37422
Joined: 26 Jun 2009, 8:21pm

Re: Paying for Care

Postby reohn2 » 6 Feb 2020, 8:24am

Tangled Metal wrote:.This isn't a nice topic, perhaps best to drop this line of posts.

Violent suicide shouldn't be a way out a bad situation,whether it be mental health issues or monetary problems etc,immediate help should be available.
However in certain circumstances such as terminal very painful illnesses or degraded personal living standards(not material,which shouldn't be allowed to happen in any civilised country anyway),assisted dying should be an option for those who choose it.
-----------------------------------------------------------
I cycle therefore I am.

pwa
Posts: 11226
Joined: 2 Oct 2011, 8:55pm

Re: Paying for Care

Postby pwa » 6 Feb 2020, 8:24am

reohn2 wrote:
Cugel wrote:....If only we could do this for our loved humans. Instead, so many end up dying in some hospital, not-so-caring home or other place not of their choosing, often following months or even years of unwanted & untold suffering and degradation. We do this to each other for ideological reasons engendered through religious traditions well past their sell-by date. It's time we moved away from such bad habits.

Cugel

Quite!
And the worst of it is that should we help our loved ones end their lives humanely to save the from that degradation we break the law and are criminalised for doing it.


I have long wondered how a jury would regard that. If I were in a jury and the defendant was an old man who had assisted his wife with her suicide when faced with an incurable illness that gave her no quality of life, there is no way on Earth that I would find him guilty of anything.