Is this forum unrepresentative?

Use this board for general non-cycling-related chat, or to introduce yourself to the forum.
Carlton green
Posts: 438
Joined: 22 Jun 2019, 12:27pm

Re: Is this forum unrepresentative?

Postby Carlton green » 13 Feb 2020, 11:05am

rmurphy195 wrote:
Ben@Forest wrote:
Exactly. What now their party may have said in 1940 or 1970 (and really I'm thinking about violence here) should not be a sword of Damocles over the heads of Sinn Fein politicians now.



Perhaps, but I would feel less antipathy towards Sinn Fein if it helped identify, and bring to justice, those involved in, for example, the Birmingham pub bombings.

I haven't been to Letterkenny for a while, but I wonder if the Sinn Fein offices still displays sell mugs, towels and the likes with pictures of thier IRA soldiers on them c/w balaclavas and guns (when I first saw the shop window from a distance I thought it was a souvenir shop, until I got a bit closer).


I’ve not been to any part of Ireland for decades but on the two visits that I recall I definitely felt vulnerable and sometimes an air of dislike towards me. At the root of those concerns and feelings lies Sinn Fein. One has to but briefly remember the many deaths organised and sanctioned by their ‘military wing’ to wonder very seriously about that party and the mindset of those within it. I think it a sad state of affairs that any party with such a checkered history has gained ‘seats’ and wonder with many concerns about how it gained them.

I’m really not sure that such a party can and has changed, if at all it would be wise to proceed with a very large degree of caution.
Last edited by Carlton green on 13 Feb 2020, 11:14am, edited 1 time in total.

pwa
Posts: 11211
Joined: 2 Oct 2011, 8:55pm

Re: Is this forum unrepresentative?

Postby pwa » 13 Feb 2020, 11:11am

Carlton green wrote:
rmurphy195 wrote:
Ben@Forest wrote:
Exactly. What now their party may have said in 1940 or 1970 (and really I'm thinking about violence here) should not be a sword of Damocles over the heads of Sinn Fein politicians now.



Perhaps, but I would feel less antipathy towards Sinn Fein if it helped identify, and bring to justice, those involved in, for example, the Birmingham pub bombings.

I haven't been to Letterkenny for a while, but I wonder if the Sinn Fein offices still displays sell mugs, towels and the likes with pictures of thier IRA soldiers on them c/w balaclavas and guns (when I first saw the shop window from a distance I thought it was a souvenir shop, until I got a bit closer).


I’ve not been to any part of Ireland for decades but on the two visits I recall I definitely felt vulnerable and sometimes an air of dislike towards me. At the root of those concerns and feelings lies Sinn Fein. One has to but briefly remember the many deaths organised and sanctioned by their ‘military wing’ to wonder very seriously about that party and the mindset of those within it. I think it a sad state of affairs that any party with such a checkered history has gained ‘seats’ and wonder with concern about how it gained them.

I’m really not sure that such a party can and has changed, if at all it would be wise to proceed with a very large degree of caution.

The Peace Process in which Sinn Fein put down the guns began about 25 years ago. How long do you think this caution should continue?

Hobbs1951
Posts: 480
Joined: 15 Apr 2014, 10:48am

Re: Is this forum unrepresentative?

Postby Hobbs1951 » 13 Feb 2020, 11:14am

roubaixtuesday wrote:Brexit has not "happened", it is a process that will take years.


Exactly.

John.

Carlton green
Posts: 438
Joined: 22 Jun 2019, 12:27pm

Re: Is this forum unrepresentative?

Postby Carlton green » 13 Feb 2020, 11:31am

pwa wrote:
Carlton green wrote:
rmurphy195 wrote:
Perhaps, but I would feel less antipathy towards Sinn Fein if it helped identify, and bring to justice, those involved in, for example, the Birmingham pub bombings.

I haven't been to Letterkenny for a while, but I wonder if the Sinn Fein offices still displays sell mugs, towels and the likes with pictures of thier IRA soldiers on them c/w balaclavas and guns (when I first saw the shop window from a distance I thought it was a souvenir shop, until I got a bit closer).


I’ve not been to any part of Ireland for decades but on the two visits I recall I definitely felt vulnerable and sometimes an air of dislike towards me. At the root of those concerns and feelings lies Sinn Fein. One has to but briefly remember the many deaths organised and sanctioned by their ‘military wing’ to wonder very seriously about that party and the mindset of those within it. I think it a sad state of affairs that any party with such a checkered history has gained ‘seats’ and wonder with concern about how it gained them.

I’m really not sure that such a party can and has changed, if at all it would be wise to proceed with a very large degree of caution.

The Peace Process in which Sinn Fein put down the guns began about 25 years ago. How long do you think this caution should continue?


Indefinitely, but if you need a figure then I’m thinking around another thirty years and upwards; Irish memories are very long and there is no doubt in my mind that the whole lot could ‘kick-off’ again. There are some particular cultural and deep rooted beliefs in Ireland that need to be treated with large amounts of caution.

Have the guns really been put down in Northern Ireland? The bulk of them certainly have but there are still some out there and folk willing to use them in an unofficial sort of way for ‘their’ party, be concerned about just how easily things could get out of hand again.

pwa
Posts: 11211
Joined: 2 Oct 2011, 8:55pm

Re: Is this forum unrepresentative?

Postby pwa » 13 Feb 2020, 11:37am

Carlton green wrote: Irish memories are very long and there is no doubt in my mind that the whole lot could ‘kick-off’ again. There are some particular cultural and deep rooted beliefs in Ireland that need to be treated with large amounts of caution.


That is the point, we need more than anything for the past to be left behind. Sinn Fein have made great strides towards doing that, but all sides need to keep focused on that and forget the old habit of looking backwards. Part of the problem is lack of trust but in building up trust you have to take risks.

Carlton green
Posts: 438
Joined: 22 Jun 2019, 12:27pm

Re: Is this forum unrepresentative?

Postby Carlton green » 13 Feb 2020, 1:38pm

pwa wrote:
Carlton green wrote: Irish memories are very long and there is no doubt in my mind that the whole lot could ‘kick-off’ again. There are some particular cultural and deep rooted beliefs in Ireland that need to be treated with large amounts of caution.


That is the point, we need more than anything for the past to be left behind. Sinn Fein have made great strides towards doing that, but all sides need to keep focused on that and forget the old habit of looking backwards. Part of the problem is lack of trust but in building up trust you have to take risks.


I would suggest to you that observation of Irish history, culture and deep rooted beliefs indicates that your proposition is flawed. Trust is something to be earned and I would not agree that part of that process involves taking risks; for many what happens in NI is literally a life and death issue and gambling with people’s lives isn’t a good idea.

It’s easy for us on the ‘mainland’ to talk about what should happen in NI but I’d suggest that our mindset isn’t well suited to that task, the Irish have more useful perspectives on what would be acceptable (or not) to their fellow countrymen. Mr Murphy’s comments above seem sound to me. (Perhaps, but I would feel less antipathy towards Sinn Fein if it helped identify, and bring to justice, those involved in, for example, the Birmingham pub bombings.)

fullupandslowingdown
Posts: 231
Joined: 11 Oct 2007, 5:47pm

Re: Is this forum unrepresentative?

Postby fullupandslowingdown » 13 Feb 2020, 9:33pm

carpetcleaner wrote:
fullupandslowingdown wrote:I've found at work and elsewhere there are mainly two types of people: those who always moan amongst themselves about stuff, and those who speak out and try to make changes. I'd imagine that this forum attracts more regular posts from the doers in life than the grumblers. So if the forum becomes unrepresentative, then it's up to the moaners to become doers......


Brexit has happened now. Moaning about it will do no good at all.


How curious.

I state my perception of people and somehow it gets tagged to a single specific political event. Changes can refer to much much much much more than only brexit. Getting a row of coat hooks moved from next to a doorway so people don't keep knocking them off or brushing against wet coats. Or changing the soap for one which doesn't dry your hands out. Or changing light bulbs from spot light to diffused so you don't get eye strain looking. etc.

pwa
Posts: 11211
Joined: 2 Oct 2011, 8:55pm

Re: Is this forum unrepresentative?

Postby pwa » 14 Feb 2020, 8:15am

Carlton green wrote:
pwa wrote:
Carlton green wrote: Irish memories are very long and there is no doubt in my mind that the whole lot could ‘kick-off’ again. There are some particular cultural and deep rooted beliefs in Ireland that need to be treated with large amounts of caution.


That is the point, we need more than anything for the past to be left behind. Sinn Fein have made great strides towards doing that, but all sides need to keep focused on that and forget the old habit of looking backwards. Part of the problem is lack of trust but in building up trust you have to take risks.


I would suggest to you that observation of Irish history, culture and deep rooted beliefs indicates that your proposition is flawed. Trust is something to be earned and I would not agree that part of that process involves taking risks; for many what happens in NI is literally a life and death issue and gambling with people’s lives isn’t a good idea.

It’s easy for us on the ‘mainland’ to talk about what should happen in NI but I’d suggest that our mindset isn’t well suited to that task, the Irish have more useful perspectives on what would be acceptable (or not) to their fellow countrymen. Mr Murphy’s comments above seem sound to me. (Perhaps, but I would feel less antipathy towards Sinn Fein if it helped identify, and bring to justice, those involved in, for example, the Birmingham pub bombings.)

But think about it. The Peace Process only happened at all because the likes of Gerry Adams and Ian Paisley took a risk and decided to take tentative steps towards each other. The talk at the time was all about a protracted process of reducing suspicions between the communities and building trust. That was in the 1990s and since then, by and large, Sinn Fein have been as good as their word. The great disease of Northern Ireland is the influence of the past, the constant celebration of old battles between the communities and the narrative of division. Things have improved in recent decades but the problem still exists. The past lays a heavy hand on the present. The way forward must involve an effort to put the past to bed and search for common goals and values that can bring people together. Embracing Sinn Fein in their current form is part of that.

I am a half Irish (by descent) English person who considers himself (if anything) British, but I have no view on the ultimate fate of Northern Ireland, other than that I want the place to be at peace with itself and I want it to go in directions that both communities can feel comfortable with. At the moment that is difficult, but as the Peace Process recognised, time is the great healer and we should be open to whatever tomorrow's Northern Ireland wants for itself.

(Can someone remind me what this thread was about? I think we may have gone off track.)

Carlton green
Posts: 438
Joined: 22 Jun 2019, 12:27pm

Re: Is this forum unrepresentative?

Postby Carlton green » 14 Feb 2020, 10:02am

francovendee wrote:The Brexit thread has been active since Sept 2016 and in that time I'm pretty sure the majority of posts have been from people who voted to remain.
This means,

A few very prolific remain posters who'll not stop.

Leave voters got fed up and stopped posting ( with one or two notable exceptions, you know who you are! :D )

Or this forum for cyclists is out of wack with the rest of the country.

I'd be very interested in other views.

I see the moderator has closed the thread and I don't want to the same old arguments about brexit to start up again.



The OP is above and yes the thread has drifted, but we learn upon the way so there is advantage to some drift. I’ve change some text to bold, please let’s do as the OP asked.

I do not want to be saying more about ‘the troubles’ but think that the parallels to Brexit are interesting, we can see what terrible things ended up happening in NI and may we learn from that for the future (ie. work hard at healing the divisions, pain and injury between us over many issues including Brexit).

brynpoeth
Posts: 11959
Joined: 30 Nov 2013, 11:26am

Re: Is this forum unrepresentative?

Postby brynpoeth » 17 Feb 2020, 7:12pm

My poll asking how many cycles members own shows that many own nine or more
I suspect that many forum memb€r$ are relatively rich
Entertainer, kidult, curmudgeon
Cycling-of course, but it is far better on a Gillott
We love safety cameras, we love life "597"

francovendee
Posts: 1163
Joined: 5 May 2009, 6:32am

Re: Is this forum unrepresentative?

Postby francovendee » 18 Feb 2020, 9:42am

brynpoeth wrote:My poll asking how many cycles members own shows that many own nine or more
I suspect that many forum memb€r$ are relatively rich

That or all their money goes on their addiction. :lol:

Tinpotflowers
Posts: 101
Joined: 31 May 2019, 7:16pm

Re: Is this forum unrepresentative?

Postby Tinpotflowers » 18 Feb 2020, 1:02pm

francovendee wrote:The Brexit thread has been active since Sept 2016 and in that time I'm pretty sure the majority of posts have been from people who voted to remain.
This means,

A few very prolific remain posters who'll not stop.

Leave voters got fed up and stopped posting ( with one or two notable exceptions, you know who you are! :D )

Or this forum for cyclists is out of wack with the rest of the country.

I'd be very interested in other views.

I see the moderator has closed the thread and I don't want to the same old arguments about brexit to start up again.



Is this forum unrepresentative?

Unless I have missed it, I would like to know what does this question means?

Is it unrepresentative in terms of a wide range of subjects in general or cycling or even the activate of CTC/CUK?
Are we talking about unrepresentative in terms of the:
world population
UK population
UK cycle user’s population
UK Cyclist population
Members of CTC/CUK
Active members of CTC/CUK (who participate in the activities of local groups)

brynpoeth
Posts: 11959
Joined: 30 Nov 2013, 11:26am

Re: Is this forum unrepresentative?

Postby brynpoeth » 18 Feb 2020, 1:35pm

The b****t thread is still locked, I am starting to forget it, +1!
Entertainer, kidult, curmudgeon
Cycling-of course, but it is far better on a Gillott
We love safety cameras, we love life "597"

User avatar
NATURAL ANKLING
Posts: 11186
Joined: 24 Oct 2012, 10:43pm
Location: English Riviera

Re: Is this forum unrepresentative?

Postby NATURAL ANKLING » 18 Feb 2020, 1:57pm

Hi,
brynpoeth wrote:The b****t thread is still locked, I am starting to forget it, +1!

They are all on the undemocratic bash Boris with a virus float your boat house viral storm in a pond topics :mrgreen:

I might join them later :lol:
NA Thinks Just End 2 End Return + Bivvy
You'll Still Find Me At The Top Of A Hill
Please forgive the poor Grammar I blame it on my mobile and phat thinkers.

Bonefishblues
Posts: 7160
Joined: 7 Jul 2014, 9:45pm
Location: Near Bicester Oxon

Re: Is this forum unrepresentative?

Postby Bonefishblues » 18 Feb 2020, 3:47pm

Tinpotflowers wrote:
francovendee wrote:The Brexit thread has been active since Sept 2016 and in that time I'm pretty sure the majority of posts have been from people who voted to remain.
This means,

A few very prolific remain posters who'll not stop.

Leave voters got fed up and stopped posting ( with one or two notable exceptions, you know who you are! :D )

Or this forum for cyclists is out of wack with the rest of the country.

I'd be very interested in other views.

I see the moderator has closed the thread and I don't want to the same old arguments about brexit to start up again.



Is this forum unrepresentative?

Unless I have missed it, I would like to know what does this question means?

Is it unrepresentative in terms of a wide range of subjects in general or cycling or even the activate of CTC/CUK?
Are we talking about unrepresentative in terms of the:
world population
UK population
UK cycle user’s population
UK Cyclist population
Members of CTC/CUK
Active members of CTC/CUK (who participate in the activities of local groups)

It's unrepresentative of all of those above sub-categories. HTH :)