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Re: Is this forum unrepresentative?

Posted: 5 Feb 2020, 10:20pm
by pete75
pwa wrote:It would be interesting to get people here to anonymously provide details of their age, sex and ethnicity, and I think we would find that we are not very "representative" even at that basic level. :lol:


Representative of what?

Re: Is this forum unrepresentative?

Posted: 5 Feb 2020, 10:45pm
by Tangled Metal
Interesting how someone linked cycling as transport and left leaning politics. Imho there's a few other cycling forums that are left leaning. Some are simply populated by people across the spectrum, others come across as to the right. Probably because they're the most active on political threads. I suspect that's why this forum seems more left leaning, those on the left are simply more active and vocal on the forum.

Campaigning groups for improved cycling facilities that I know about locally are actually more populated by right leaning people. As for cycling as a hobby I don't see the link with politics and left or right politics.

Re: Is this forum unrepresentative?

Posted: 6 Feb 2020, 7:50am
by pwa
pete75 wrote:
pwa wrote:It would be interesting to get people here to anonymously provide details of their age, sex and ethnicity, and I think we would find that we are not very "representative" even at that basic level. :lol:


Representative of what?

Good question. I was thinking "representative of the UK population", but why should we be? We are too small a group, who unite around a minority activity, to aspire to be representative of any part of society. I don't even think we are representative of cyclists.

Re: Is this forum unrepresentative?

Posted: 6 Feb 2020, 8:03am
by Oldjohnw
This group is self selecting from the very start. So in relation to the general population we are likely to be atypical. We are likely to have a "greener" outlook and quite possibly more likely to have a centre/centre left political outlook. Obviously there will be exceptions.

Re: Is this forum unrepresentative?

Posted: 6 Feb 2020, 8:24am
by Tangled Metal
Oldjohnw wrote:This group is self selecting from the very start. So in relation to the general population we are likely to be atypical. We are likely to have a "greener" outlook and quite possibly more likely to have a centre/centre left political outlook. Obviously there will be exceptions.

<waves from stage right! A lonely place. > :lol:

Re: Is this forum unrepresentative?

Posted: 6 Feb 2020, 9:38am
by Oldjohnw
Tangled Metal wrote:
Oldjohnw wrote:This group is self selecting from the very start. So in relation to the general population we are likely to be atypical. We are likely to have a "greener" outlook and quite possibly more likely to have a centre/centre left political outlook. Obviously there will be exceptions.

<waves from stage right! A lonely place. > :lol:


Excellent! We agree that we disagree. Progress:-)

Re: Is this forum unrepresentative?

Posted: 6 Feb 2020, 9:41am
by reohn2
Tangled Metal wrote:Interesting how someone linked cycling as transport and left leaning politics. Imho there's a few other cycling forums that are left leaning. Some are simply populated by people across the spectrum, others come across as to the right. Probably because they're the most active on political threads. I suspect that's why this forum seems more left leaning, those on the left are simply more active and vocal on the forum.

Campaigning groups for improved cycling facilities that I know about locally are actually more populated by right leaning people. As for cycling as a hobby I don't see the link with politics and left or right politics.

Define left and right leaning and where the centre is?

Re: Is this forum unrepresentative?

Posted: 6 Feb 2020, 9:57am
by 661-Pete
Tangled Metal wrote:Campaigning groups for improved cycling facilities that I know about locally are actually more populated by right leaning people. As for cycling as a hobby I don't see the link with politics and left or right politics.
I wonder whether those 'right leaning people' are actually campaigning to "get cyclists off of our roads and onto their 'facilities' "? I.e. leave the roads clear for the motorist who is supreme King of everything and everyone!? Of course I'm not accusing every Conservative voter of being of that persuasion!

Re: Is this forum unrepresentative?

Posted: 6 Feb 2020, 10:09am
by Tangled Metal
Oldjohnw wrote:
Tangled Metal wrote:
Oldjohnw wrote:This group is self selecting from the very start. So in relation to the general population we are likely to be atypical. We are likely to have a "greener" outlook and quite possibly more likely to have a centre/centre left political outlook. Obviously there will be exceptions.

<waves from stage right! A lonely place. > :lol:


Excellent! We agree that we disagree. Progress:-)

I've been here with R2 before. It's good to agree even on little things like accepting each other's pov. Not that that's a little thing in the modern internet warrior age. :lol:

Re: Is this forum unrepresentative?

Posted: 6 Feb 2020, 10:15am
by pete75
pwa wrote:
pete75 wrote:
pwa wrote:It would be interesting to get people here to anonymously provide details of their age, sex and ethnicity, and I think we would find that we are not very "representative" even at that basic level. :lol:


Representative of what?

Good question. I was thinking "representative of the UK population", but why should we be? We are too small a group, who unite around a minority activity, to aspire to be representative of any part of society. I don't even think we are representative of cyclists.

Probably the only thing representative of the UK population is the UK population. Certainly a self selecting interest group based on a hobby or pastime can't aspire to be representative of anything. Nor should it try.

Re: Is this forum unrepresentative?

Posted: 6 Feb 2020, 10:16am
by mjr
Tangled Metal wrote:Campaigning groups for improved cycling facilities that I know about locally are actually more populated by right leaning people.

As I would expect because cycling is transport that embodies personal choice, mobility and freedom from tyranny (of oil barons and mostly of transport system designers) while requiring responsibility and resilience, especially to deal with some of the user-hostile designs we suffer in the UK, and encouraging campaigns for fairer yet less regulated roadscapes. It is truly bizarre to me how many Conservatives justify their car dependency putting them in hock to others and requiring massive public expenditure to support it.

Local campaigns are politically a mixed bag of caring conservatives and green social democrats.

Re: Is this forum unrepresentative?

Posted: 6 Feb 2020, 10:40am
by mattheus
661-Pete wrote:
Tangled Metal wrote:Campaigning groups for improved cycling facilities that I know about locally are actually more populated by right leaning people. As for cycling as a hobby I don't see the link with politics and left or right politics.
I wonder whether those 'right leaning people' are actually campaigning to "get cyclists off of our roads and onto their 'facilities' "? I.e. leave the roads clear for the motorist who is supreme King of everything and everyone!? Of course I'm not accusing every Conservative voter of being of that persuasion!

That is certainly possible, but I've never met anyone that both:
- complains about riders impeding them on their roads, AND
- is in any way active about campaigns for infrastructure.

They will of course moan about riders who do not use existing infrastructure, no matter how poor!

Re: Is this forum unrepresentative?

Posted: 6 Feb 2020, 10:42am
by Audax67
pete75 wrote:
pwa wrote:
pete75 wrote:
Representative of what?

Good question. I was thinking "representative of the UK population", but why should we be? We are too small a group, who unite around a minority activity, to aspire to be representative of any part of society. I don't even think we are representative of cyclists.

Probably the only thing representative of the UK population is the UK population. Certainly a self selecting interest group based on a hobby or pastime can't aspire to be representative of anything. Nor should it try.


Exactly. Complaining about membership bias, or people of a single opinion dominating a thread, is illogical.

Re: Is this forum unrepresentative?

Posted: 6 Feb 2020, 10:55am
by mattheus
Members need to answer the Q-aire (once a month?). If their views align with an under-represented demographic or politics, then their posts shall be displayed in a bigger font. And vice-versa.

If your Q-aire answers expire, your posts will appear in light grey.

Re: Is this forum unrepresentative?

Posted: 6 Feb 2020, 12:27pm
by Tangled Metal
661-Pete wrote:
Tangled Metal wrote:Campaigning groups for improved cycling facilities that I know about locally are actually more populated by right leaning people. As for cycling as a hobby I don't see the link with politics and left or right politics.
I wonder whether those 'right leaning people' are actually campaigning to "get cyclists off of our roads and onto their 'facilities' "? I.e. leave the roads clear for the motorist who is supreme King of everything and everyone!? Of course I'm not accusing every Conservative voter of being of that persuasion!

No, they were part of a local network of green activists. They were more centre right than anything. A mix of guardian and DM readers probably reading both. It's just that they're heavily involved in cycling to get around nstead of using their car and reducing waste/ recycling. The cycling campaign group actually had few green party types but they came from the same lobbying groups that do contain green party members.

Either way they certainly weren't about clearing the roads for car use but they were Tory in outlook. However, the libdem were a big influence in the area and a lot of right leaning people were voting libdem purely because of who their candidate was. Personality over party loyalties. I've got family who voted against their political outlook because of who was the other party's candidate.