Tangled Metal wrote: mjr wrote:
Tangled Metal wrote:Hmmm! There's been a lot of English innovations that has led to the idea of human rights.
Innovations including the Treaty of London leading to the ECHR and Human Rights Act! Why should we reject our own inventions? Just because it has the E word in its current name?
Why do you think our country can't defend human rights in its own lands but others can?
They can't either. That's why we have the ECHR and UN and other as-yet-imperfect attempts to defend each other.
So we have the un, do we need the ECHR as well? Is it a case of as many layers as possible? Perhaps we haven't got enough. We need another court to second guess the ECHR and UN. How can we set that up?
I feel that the UDHR is weaker than the ECHR and the flaws in the UN's decision-making, such as the security council vetos and potential for intercontinental interference, are well-known, which is probably why Churchill said "a Council of Europe was a subordinate but necessary part of the world organisation".
Of course, we already have other courts that second-guess the ECHR and UN, including our Supreme Court.
I would bet that the UK politicians involved in the treaty of London were thinking along the lines of the UK courts being the ideal so let's help the European barbarians with their legal system. The superiority of the English elites looking down on Europe. That sounds like Churchill to me.
I find it interesting that Churchill rarely sounded like the petty nationalist/jingoist that many people seem to think. First of all, it's important to remember that he was the son of a migrant (albeit a rich migrant who married an aristocrat) who "crossed the floor" between Conservatives and Liberals twice. But secondly and more importantly, we can read his speeches from things like the 1948 Congress of Europe that led to the 1949 Treaty of London and EHCR: https://www.cvce.eu/en/obj/address_give ... 4f42c.html
"Europe requires all that Frenchmen, all that Germans, and all that every one of us can give. I therefore welcome here the German delegation, whom we have invited into our midst. For us the German problem is to restore the economic life of Germany and revive the ancient fame of the German race without thereby exposing their neighbours and ourselves to any rebuilding or reassertion of their military power of which we still bear the scars. United Europe provides the only solution to this two-sided problem and it is also a solution which can be implemented without delay. [....] We aim at the eventual participation of all European peoples whose society and way of life, making all allowances for the different points of view in various countries, are not in disaccord with a Charter of Human Rights and with the sincere expression of free democracy. We welcome any country where the people own the Government, and not the Government the people."