Remembering the Fallen.

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landsurfer
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Joined: 27 Oct 2012, 9:13pm
Location: Rotherham

Remembering the Fallen.

Postby landsurfer » 12 Feb 2020, 3:09pm

I travel all over the country fixing things.
I have noticed, everywhere from Edinburgh to Penzance, how many people of all ages are still wearing Poppies.
Usually enamel ones, although in a few cases the paper ones still.
I asked one of the staff at Haymarket Depot why she had one on her hi-vis jacket.
She replied " 1day a year is not enough to remember all those that have fallen " .... lump in the throat moment for me it was.
A young woman with an older outlook ?


My wife wears hers on her hand bag all year round and has for a couple of years.
I've put mine back on the lapel of my work jacket as a result of the encounter with the Lady in Edinburgh.
I feel it's the right thing to do.

Do any of you still wear a poppy ?
The Road Goes On Forever

mattheus
Posts: 1386
Joined: 29 Dec 2008, 12:57pm

Re: Remembering the Fallen.

Postby mattheus » 12 Feb 2020, 3:26pm

I think 1 day a year is about right.

Everybody that I know who has died would want me to celebrate their lives, and get on with mine. (and vice versa)

Of course war is different, because we hope that by remembering the fallen, we discourage future conflicts. But I don't think year-round poppies will make much difference; I think they diminish the impact of the Armistice Day events (which I think are VERY important).

Tangled Metal
Posts: 6280
Joined: 13 Feb 2015, 8:32pm

Re: Remembering the Fallen.

Postby Tangled Metal » 12 Feb 2020, 3:48pm

It might be unpopular response but I don't get a poppy. I don't equate wearing one with remembering.

I remember when it comes up in conversation, surprisingly a lot through the whole year. I remember when thinking about family who served. I remember when seeing a documentary or quality war film. When visiting IWM North or any other museum with war materials on display. When I hear about or read about hero's from wartime.

As I said my views are probably unpopular but I separate remembrance/ honouring those who served / died in wartime from charity collections. That doesn't mean I don't give to armed forces charities just that I don't have that same linkage.

PS my two regrets relating to this is not finding out more about my families involvement in WWII. I have one grandad who served in the us army, another who drove goods trains from Southampton docks to London and a great uncle who was a corporal or sergeant in the royal marines (commandos????). The latter died before I found out he was one of the non commisioned soldiers who defended the extraction of officers and privates from the Mediterranean island that got overrun. Once their bullets ran out they surrendered. He spent the rest of the war in Germany, ended up being starved and causing damage to his health that lasted the rest of his life. I only got the basics of that story so don't know how accurate it is.

I know little about my American grandad's service. My English grandad told me little. Once told me that if stopped at signals when hearing a German plane the fireman and him used to run for cover. If running there was little you could do. He lost many friends in his job too. Saw things that got him upset just like old soldiers. So it's always pleasing to me when reserved occupations got honoured many years after the war. Many ways to serve.

Sorry about this digression.

gbnz
Posts: 1662
Joined: 13 Sep 2008, 10:38am

Re: Remembering the Fallen.

Postby gbnz » 12 Feb 2020, 4:18pm

landsurfer wrote:
Do any of you still wear a poppy ?


No, it's a bit of a nonsense. Britains chosen to fight in many wars, whether it was pushing South Africans into concentration camps during the lifetime of my grandparents, or fighting the French in 2033 (NB. Oop's sorry, Brexit supporters haven't got around to starting the fishing rights war yet :wink:)

As stated in a leading article in the Guardian, 2017 "Britain should write the wars of the 20th century into its history books. It should then move on. It is time to remember the future. No more remembrance days"

Oldjohnw
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Location: Northumberland

Re: Remembering the Fallen.

Postby Oldjohnw » 12 Feb 2020, 4:22pm

I wear a white poppy for a couple of days. I do remember the sacrifice of many and the overall folly and futility of war. I do not accept glorious dead: lying torn to shreds in a muddy field is not glorious.
John

Mike Sales
Posts: 4132
Joined: 7 Mar 2009, 3:31pm

Re: Remembering the Fallen.

Postby Mike Sales » 12 Feb 2020, 4:26pm

Oldjohnw wrote:I wear a white poppy for a couple of days. I do remember the sacrifice of many and the overall folly and futility of war. I do not accept glorious dead: lying torn to shreds in a muddy field is not glorious.


The old Lie: Dulce et decorum est
Pro patria mori.


Wilfred Owen.

https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/46560/dulce-et-decorum-est

Tangled Metal
Posts: 6280
Joined: 13 Feb 2015, 8:32pm

Re: Remembering the Fallen.

Postby Tangled Metal » 12 Feb 2020, 4:29pm

Oldjohnw wrote:I wear a white poppy for a couple of days. I do remember the sacrifice of many and the overall folly and futility of war. I do not accept glorious dead: lying torn to shreds in a muddy field is not glorious.

I didn't know remembrance equates to glorifying the dead. I stand corrected. Thanks!

Carlton green
Posts: 432
Joined: 22 Jun 2019, 12:27pm

Re: Remembering the Fallen.

Postby Carlton green » 12 Feb 2020, 4:37pm

Tangled Metal wrote:
Oldjohnw wrote:I wear a white poppy for a couple of days. I do remember the sacrifice of many and the overall folly and futility of war. I do not accept glorious dead: lying torn to shreds in a muddy field is not glorious.

I didn't know remembrance equates to glorifying the dead. I stand corrected. Thanks!


To my mind Acts of Remembrance honour the death and I think it fitting that we do remember those who lost their lives in defence of their country and fellow ‘man’. However it has always annoyed me that those not in the armed forces who also lost their lives during war-time service are not honoured too. There were many ways to serve and many ways to loose your life during that service.

millimole
Posts: 498
Joined: 18 Feb 2007, 5:41pm
Location: Leicester

Re: Remembering the Fallen.

Postby millimole » 12 Feb 2020, 5:28pm

gbnz wrote:As stated in a leading article in the Guardian, 2017 "Britain should write the wars of the 20th century into its history books. It should then move on. It is time to remember the future. No more remembrance days"

Agreed.
The Royal British Legion have effectively monetised their own brand of remembrance and this has led to distorted memory and perverse behaviour.

There is - on the back of the red poppy - widespread belief that war is somehow 'glorious'.
There is a separate parallel strand of thinking that Britain did no wrong in any conflict, and along with that the mistaken trope that says British troops alone won the European wars of the 20th century.

I applaud the White Poppy movement that seeks to draw attention to the contribution of non-combatants. But, to my mind it does not go far enough in recognising that deaths on all sides of a conflict are unworthy of civilised society.
Leicester; Riding my Hetchins since 1971; Audaxing on my Dawes; Riding to work on a Decathlon Hoprider

Oldjohnw
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Joined: 16 Oct 2018, 4:23am
Location: Northumberland

Re: Remembering the Fallen.

Postby Oldjohnw » 12 Feb 2020, 5:53pm

Carlton green wrote:
Tangled Metal wrote:
Oldjohnw wrote:I wear a white poppy for a couple of days. I do remember the sacrifice of many and the overall folly and futility of war. I do not accept glorious dead: lying torn to shreds in a muddy field is not glorious.

I didn't know remembrance equates to glorifying the dead. I stand corrected. Thanks!


To my mind Acts of Remembrance honour the death and I think it fitting that we do remember those who lost their lives in defence of their country and fellow ‘man’. However it has always annoyed me that those not in the armed forces who also lost their lives during war-time service are not honoured too. There were many ways to serve and many ways to loose your life during that service.


The remembrance services are full of references to the glorious dead as are the monuments.
John

Oldjohnw
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Joined: 16 Oct 2018, 4:23am
Location: Northumberland

Re: Remembering the Fallen.

Postby Oldjohnw » 12 Feb 2020, 5:55pm

Mike Sales wrote:
Oldjohnw wrote:I wear a white poppy for a couple of days. I do remember the sacrifice of many and the overall folly and futility of war. I do not accept glorious dead: lying torn to shreds in a muddy field is not glorious.


The old Lie: Dulce et decorum est
Pro patria mori.


Wilfred Owen.

https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/46560/dulce-et-decorum-est


I am not a fan of dying for one's country, however dulce Mr Owen found it. Dying for a cause is something which I admire.
John

Mike Sales
Posts: 4132
Joined: 7 Mar 2009, 3:31pm

Re: Remembering the Fallen.

Postby Mike Sales » 12 Feb 2020, 5:58pm

Oldjohnw wrote:
Mike Sales wrote:
Oldjohnw wrote:I wear a white poppy for a couple of days. I do remember the sacrifice of many and the overall folly and futility of war. I do not accept glorious dead: lying torn to shreds in a muddy field is not glorious.


The old Lie: Dulce et decorum est
Pro patria mori.


Wilfred Owen.

https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/46560/dulce-et-decorum-est





I am not a fan of dying for one's country, however dulce Mr Owen found it. Dying for a cause is something which I admire.


I think that the poem makes it absolutely clear that Owen found the quotation a lie, so you seem to have misread.
The rest of the poem, which I did not quote, is a horrible description of the realities of life and death in the trenches, which he experienced.

Oldjohnw
Posts: 2772
Joined: 16 Oct 2018, 4:23am
Location: Northumberland

Re: Remembering the Fallen.

Postby Oldjohnw » 12 Feb 2020, 6:01pm

Mike Sales wrote:
Oldjohnw wrote:





I am not a fan of dying for one's country, however dulce Mr Owen found it. Dying for a cause is something which I admire.


I think that the poem makes it absolutely clear that Owen found the quotation a lie, so you seem to have misread.
The rest of the poem, which I did not quote, is a horrible description of the realities of life and death in the trenches, which he experienced.


Yes I know but forgot. Thanks for reminding me.
John

roubaixtuesday
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Joined: 18 Aug 2015, 7:05pm

Re: Remembering the Fallen.

Postby roubaixtuesday » 12 Feb 2020, 6:57pm

I wear a poppy on remembrance day.

I however, hate the way they have become compulsory for people in the public eye, politicians, footballers etc.

Shaming people for not wearing one is the absolute antithesis of what people fought and died for. I also know that post war, some service people objected to the whole farrago.

roubaixtuesday
Posts: 2546
Joined: 18 Aug 2015, 7:05pm

Re: Remembering the Fallen.

Postby roubaixtuesday » 12 Feb 2020, 7:06pm

A couple of pieces, one from the military, and another including a little on the long history of the white poppy.

Both argue the case for not wearing is to be defended.


https://www.forces.net/news/poppy-must-members-military


https://theconversation.com/wearing-the ... why-106489