Remembering the Fallen.

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reohn2
Posts: 37424
Joined: 26 Jun 2009, 8:21pm

Re: Remembering the Fallen.

Postby reohn2 » 12 Feb 2020, 7:32pm

I despair of the glorification of war
Yes I remember the poor sods
Who went so willingly to war
I ask "what for"?

To die for some mad man's dream
To be tricked into such an end
Or to be left with nightmares
Of dead or maimed friends

What a pitiful species we are
We know better,but choose worse
War isn't glory,it's a shameful curse.
-----------------------------------------------------------
I cycle therefore I am.

landsurfer
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Joined: 27 Oct 2012, 9:13pm
Location: Rotherham

Re: Remembering the Fallen.

Postby landsurfer » 12 Feb 2020, 8:11pm

roubaixtuesday wrote:I wear a poppy on remembrance day.

I however, hate the way they have become compulsory for people in the public eye, politicians, footballers etc.

Shaming people for not wearing one is the absolute antithesis of what people fought and died for. I also know that post war, some service people objected to the whole farrago.


Who has shamed people for not wearing one .... please ....
The Road Goes On Forever

roubaixtuesday
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Joined: 18 Aug 2015, 7:05pm

Re: Remembering the Fallen.

Postby roubaixtuesday » 12 Feb 2020, 8:42pm

landsurfer wrote:
roubaixtuesday wrote:I wear a poppy on remembrance day.

I however, hate the way they have become compulsory for people in the public eye, politicians, footballers etc.

Shaming people for not wearing one is the absolute antithesis of what people fought and died for. I also know that post war, some service people objected to the whole farrago.


Who has shamed people for not wearing one .... please ....


https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/foo ... 16746.html

And imagine the meltdown had Corbyn not worn one

Tangled Metal
Posts: 6310
Joined: 13 Feb 2015, 8:32pm

Re: Remembering the Fallen.

Postby Tangled Metal » 12 Feb 2020, 9:37pm

Carlton green wrote:
Tangled Metal wrote:
Oldjohnw wrote:I wear a white poppy for a couple of days. I do remember the sacrifice of many and the overall folly and futility of war. I do not accept glorious dead: lying torn to shreds in a muddy field is not glorious.

I didn't know remembrance equates to glorifying the dead. I stand corrected. Thanks!


To my mind Acts of Remembrance honour the death and I think it fitting that we do remember those who lost their lives in defence of their country and fellow ‘man’. However it has always annoyed me that those not in the armed forces who also lost their lives during war-time service are not honoured too. There were many ways to serve and many ways to loose your life during that service.

That's part of one of my long posts. Can't remember which, they're too long to reread! :lol:

My grandad saw a lot as a train driver working the routes supplying London. A prime target for enemy planes if they still had armaments. They got very efficient at removing twisted engines and trucks from tracks and repairing the tracks. Usually very little left of driver and fireman if a direct hit. He lost good friends and had a few lucky escapes too.

Miners took risks keeping coal supplies going. Bevan boys got honoured recently. Women working in the fields or factories also got honoured. Quite right too. But I don't recall railwaymen getting honoured like the others giving a lot to the war effort.

Honouring the death or honouring the sacrifice of the people, are they the same?

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Cunobelin
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Joined: 6 Feb 2007, 7:22pm

Re: Remembering the Fallen.

Postby Cunobelin » 13 Feb 2020, 6:35am

I wear one of these:

Image

The Trust has a scheme that assists and signposts Veterans to support if they ned it.

An active way of remebering

Hobbs1951
Posts: 480
Joined: 15 Apr 2014, 10:48am

Re: Remembering the Fallen.

Postby Hobbs1951 » 13 Feb 2020, 7:06am

Mike Sales wrote:
I think that the poem makes it absolutely clear that Owen found the quotation a lie, so you seem to have misread.
The rest of the poem, which I did not quote, is a horrible description of the realities of life and death in the trenches, which he experienced.


Really ?

Owen did choose to return to the front to be with his men after his time at Craiglockart...the poetry is in the pity.

John.

Hobbs1951
Posts: 480
Joined: 15 Apr 2014, 10:48am

Re: Remembering the Fallen.

Postby Hobbs1951 » 13 Feb 2020, 7:12am

Tangled Metal wrote:
Carlton green wrote:
Tangled Metal wrote:I didn't know remembrance equates to glorifying the dead. I stand corrected. Thanks!


To my mind Acts of Remembrance honour the death and I think it fitting that we do remember those who lost their lives in defence of their country and fellow ‘man’. However it has always annoyed me that those not in the armed forces who also lost their lives during war-time service are not honoured too. There were many ways to serve and many ways to loose your life during that service.

That's part of one of my long posts. Can't remember which, they're too long to reread! :lol:

My grandad saw a lot as a train driver working the routes supplying London. A prime target for enemy planes if they still had armaments. They got very efficient at removing twisted engines and trucks from tracks and repairing the tracks. Usually very little left of driver and fireman if a direct hit. He lost good friends and had a few lucky escapes too.

Miners took risks keeping coal supplies going. Bevan boys got honoured recently. Women working in the fields or factories also got honoured. Quite right too. But I don't recall railwaymen getting honoured like the others giving a lot to the war effort.

Honouring the death or honouring the sacrifice of the people, are they the same?


The civilian army should be remembered, my Wife's Paternal Grandfather was an engine driver (Southern rail) during WW2 (goods trains during the preparations for D-Day) he lived in Bromley and used to cycle to Hither Green to start his shift.

My Paternal Grandfather, was refused military service on health grounds but did his bit as a sargeant fireguard in the most heavily V1'd part of the country - he was awarded the Lord Mayor's medal for his service.

Many relatives served their country in the military, several as PoWs.

John.

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Mick F
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Joined: 7 Jan 2007, 11:24am
Location: Tamar Valley, Cornwall

Re: Remembering the Fallen.

Postby Mick F » 13 Feb 2020, 7:23am

landsurfer wrote:Do any of you still wear a poppy ?
I do, and so does Mrs Mick F.
We have friends who have a poppy on their cars too.
Mick F. Cornwall

Oldjohnw
Posts: 2839
Joined: 16 Oct 2018, 4:23am
Location: Northumberland

Re: Remembering the Fallen.

Postby Oldjohnw » 13 Feb 2020, 7:42am

I will never have a go at anyone wearing a red poppy. I do get quite a lot of hassle when I wear a red poppy.

Just saying.
John

Tangled Metal
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Joined: 13 Feb 2015, 8:32pm

Re: Remembering the Fallen.

Postby Tangled Metal » 13 Feb 2020, 8:28am

@Hobbs1951 - Seems my grandad and your wife's grandad might have been on some of the same rails. My grandad worked a few routes both around the Southampton docks right into London and south coast. Mostly goods trains though. A nice target is a slow moving goods train. I think he couldn't serve in the army but I don't know why. Not health grounds because he was always quite the sportsman. Trophy cabinet groaned with them for cricket and bowls, but he did most sports at some time. Were train drivers barred from military service due to greater need as drivers? I believe other jobs couldn't leave so perhaps train success couldn't.

roubaixtuesday
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Joined: 18 Aug 2015, 7:05pm

Re: Remembering the Fallen.

Postby roubaixtuesday » 13 Feb 2020, 8:34am

Oldjohnw wrote:I will never have a go at anyone wearing a red poppy. I do get quite a lot of hassle when I wear a red poppy.

Just saying.


Where does the hassle come from, John?

Tangled Metal
Posts: 6310
Joined: 13 Feb 2015, 8:32pm

Re: Remembering the Fallen.

Postby Tangled Metal » 13 Feb 2020, 8:37am

roubaixtuesday wrote:
landsurfer wrote:
Who has shamed people for not wearing one .... please ....


https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/foo ... 16746.html

And imagine the meltdown had Corbyn not worn one

I read that article and thought that he didn't wear it for more political reasons being a proud Fenian.

Also, it was more about tribalism and prejudice I reckon. Football's nastier side coming out. If it wasn't exploiting his political views in not wearing the poppy it would probably just have been racism against his Irish nationality or other prejudice. We have our own versions of ultras I reckon.

Not IMHO a case of poppy shaming, although if it exists it could just be in the minds of those who feel left out by not wearing one, perhaps because they forgot to get one in time. I mean you're surrounded by poppy wearers and you don't want to be left out.

Sorry, if it sounds like I'm a bit negative about the poppy wearing hoohaaa. Let's find another symbol that's sold by all veteran charities so they can all cash in when people are most supportive of the armed forces.

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Mick F
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Location: Tamar Valley, Cornwall

Re: Remembering the Fallen.

Postby Mick F » 13 Feb 2020, 8:49am

I wear a veteran's badge. Served in the RN from 1969 to 1996. Ran the local poppy appeal for a dozen years or so, though since handed it over to someone else.

https://www.gov.uk/apply-medal-or-veterans-badge
s-l640.jpg


Also wear a cycling proficiency badge from 1965 too. :wink:
Mick F. Cornwall

Hobbs1951
Posts: 480
Joined: 15 Apr 2014, 10:48am

Re: Remembering the Fallen.

Postby Hobbs1951 » 13 Feb 2020, 9:14am

Tangled Metal wrote:@Hobbs1951 - Seems my grandad and your wife's grandad might have been on some of the same rails. My grandad worked a few routes both around the Southampton docks right into London and south coast. Mostly goods trains though. A nice target is a slow moving goods train. I think he couldn't serve in the army but I don't know why. Not health grounds because he was always quite the sportsman. Trophy cabinet groaned with them for cricket and bowls, but he did most sports at some time. Were train drivers barred from military service due to greater need as drivers? I believe other jobs couldn't leave so perhaps train success couldn't.


You may be right there TM abiut my Wife's Grandad, my Grandad played soccer and cricket yet was barred from military service on health grounds ! Train drivers may have enjoyed reserved occupation status but as you suggest trains were an easy target - especially with the amount of lines running into London - which German aircraft would have used, like they would have used rivers as navigation.

John.

Mike Sales
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Joined: 7 Mar 2009, 3:31pm

Re: Remembering the Fallen.

Postby Mike Sales » 13 Feb 2020, 9:35am

Hobbs1951 wrote:
Mike Sales wrote:
I think that the poem makes it absolutely clear that Owen found the quotation a lie, so you seem to have misread.
The rest of the poem, which I did not quote, is a horrible description of the realities of life and death in the trenches, which he experienced.


Really ?

Owen did choose to return to the front to be with his men after his time at Craiglockart...the poetry is in the pity.

John.


Yes, really. The line I quoted is quite explicit.
Owen returned to the front out of loyalty to his men and a sense of duty.
The poem shows he had no illusions about the horrors of war and was revolted by the cant about it being good to die for ones country.