Remembering the Fallen.

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Oldjohnw
Posts: 2837
Joined: 16 Oct 2018, 4:23am
Location: Northumberland

Re: Remembering the Fallen.

Postby Oldjohnw » 13 Feb 2020, 9:40am

roubaixtuesday wrote:
Oldjohnw wrote:I will never have a go at anyone wearing a red poppy. I do get quite a lot of hassle when I wear a red poppy.

Just saying.


Where does the hassle come from, John?


All sorts. Poppy vendors. People in church. Strangers on the street. Relatives.

I support the British Legion with a donation. My grandfather was a conscientious objector who was first imprisoned then given a job as a refuse collector. My father was a CO but went into the RAMC. He was captured at Dunkirk and spent 4 years as a POW. My great uncle lost his life. I remember them all with pride.
John

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100%JR
Posts: 1023
Joined: 31 May 2016, 10:47pm
Location: High Green,Sheffield.

Re: Remembering the Fallen.

Postby 100%JR » 13 Feb 2020, 10:16am

I've never bought/worn a Poppy.Personal choice.
My daughter usually wears two,one red,one white.She has had a few comments but she's usually a lot smarter than the ones commenting and puts them in their place.This year she wore three,red,white and purple.
She's quite idealistic.Life will knock that out of her :lol:

Unfortunately the Poppy and Remembrance Sunday is fast becoming a Right-wing symbol on Social Media.Used in Propaganda from October onwards with claims of some group or other(usually Muslims :roll: ) wanting it banned etc.Every year without fail.Same cr@p.
Sad state of affairs.

roubaixtuesday
Posts: 2560
Joined: 18 Aug 2015, 7:05pm

Re: Remembering the Fallen.

Postby roubaixtuesday » 13 Feb 2020, 10:47am

Oldjohnw wrote:
roubaixtuesday wrote:
Oldjohnw wrote:I will never have a go at anyone wearing a red poppy. I do get quite a lot of hassle when I wear a red poppy.

Just saying.


Where does the hassle come from, John?


All sorts. Poppy vendors. People in church. Strangers on the street. Relatives.

I support the British Legion with a donation. My grandfather was a conscientious objector who was first imprisoned then given a job as a refuse collector. My father was a CO but went into the RAMC. He was captured at Dunkirk and spent 4 years as a POW. My great uncle lost his life. I remember them all with pride.


Just so I've understood, these people give you hassle for wearing a red poppy?

Or to they hassle you to buy a red poppy?

Oldjohnw
Posts: 2837
Joined: 16 Oct 2018, 4:23am
Location: Northumberland

Re: Remembering the Fallen.

Postby Oldjohnw » 13 Feb 2020, 10:58am

roubaixtuesday wrote:
Oldjohnw wrote:
roubaixtuesday wrote:
Where does the hassle come from, John?


All sorts. Poppy vendors. People in church. Strangers on the street. Relatives.

I support the British Legion with a donation. My grandfather was a conscientious objector who was first imprisoned then given a job as a refuse collector. My father was a CO but went into the RAMC. He was captured at Dunkirk and spent 4 years as a POW. My great uncle lost his life. I remember them all with pride.


Just so I've understood, these people give you hassle for wearing a red poppy?

Or to they hassle you to buy a red poppy?


They give me hassle because I wear a white poppy.
John

roubaixtuesday
Posts: 2560
Joined: 18 Aug 2015, 7:05pm

Re: Remembering the Fallen.

Postby roubaixtuesday » 13 Feb 2020, 11:02am

Oldjohnw wrote:
roubaixtuesday wrote:
Oldjohnw wrote:
All sorts. Poppy vendors. People in church. Strangers on the street. Relatives.

I support the British Legion with a donation. My grandfather was a conscientious objector who was first imprisoned then given a job as a refuse collector. My father was a CO but went into the RAMC. He was captured at Dunkirk and spent 4 years as a POW. My great uncle lost his life. I remember them all with pride.


Just so I've understood, these people give you hassle for wearing a red poppy?

Or to they hassle you to buy a red poppy?


They give me hassle because I wear a white poppy.


Ah, OK, that makes sense now. And a great pity.

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horizon
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Location: Cornwall

Re: Remembering the Fallen.

Postby horizon » 13 Feb 2020, 11:29am

Cunobelin wrote:I wear one of these:

Image

The Trust has a scheme that assists and signposts Veterans to support if they need it.

An active way of remembering



Does anyone know when we started using the word "veteran"? I always thought that in the UK we referred to ex-servicemen and women as ex-servicemen and women. Does "veteran" imply you've actually been in battle as opposed to say a retired colonel who spent his time in the army sitting behind a desk? And does veteran mean that you are no longer in the armed sevices? Does it apply across all three services?

(Sorry about all the questions.)
The experience of travel is something that you have to pay for but can never buy. Ho Ri Zon Chinese philosopher

Oldjohnw
Posts: 2837
Joined: 16 Oct 2018, 4:23am
Location: Northumberland

Re: Remembering the Fallen.

Postby Oldjohnw » 13 Feb 2020, 12:13pm

horizon wrote:
Cunobelin wrote:I wear one of these:

Image

The Trust has a scheme that assists and signposts Veterans to support if they need it.

An active way of remembering



Does anyone know when we started using the word "veteran"? I always thought that in the UK we referred to ex-servicemen and women as ex-servicemen and women. Does "veteran" imply you've actually been in battle as opposed to say a retired colonel who spent his time in the army sitting behind a desk? And does veteran mean that you are no longer in the armed sevices? Does it apply across all three services?

(Sorry about all the questions.)


Americanism?
John

mercalia
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Joined: 22 Sep 2013, 10:03pm
Location: london South

Re: Remembering the Fallen.

Postby mercalia » 13 Feb 2020, 12:34pm

Dresden.
Image

What is strange. All the trees seem to be intact? I assume it wasnt taken so long after?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-51448486

Shuggie
Posts: 118
Joined: 21 Aug 2009, 7:38pm

Re: Remembering the Fallen.

Postby Shuggie » 13 Feb 2020, 12:56pm

horizon wrote:
Cunobelin wrote:I wear one of these:

Image

The Trust has a scheme that assists and signposts Veterans to support if they need it.

An active way of remembering



Does anyone know when we started using the word "veteran"? I always thought that in the UK we referred to ex-servicemen and women as ex-servicemen and women. Does "veteran" imply you've actually been in battle as opposed to say a retired colonel who spent his time in the army sitting behind a desk? And does veteran mean that you are no longer in the armed sevices? Does it apply across all three services?

(Sorry about all the questions.)


Hi, according to the UK Government:

“Veterans are defined as anyone who has served for at least one day in Her Majesty’s Armed Forces (Regular or Reserve) or Merchant Mariners who have seen duty on legally defined military operations.”

https://www.armedforcescovenant.gov.uk/ ... -Facts.pdf

Note, there are many ‘retired Colonels’ and the like who have seen the sharp end of conflict too, before they got to sit safely behind a desk

Hugh

Hobbs1951
Posts: 480
Joined: 15 Apr 2014, 10:48am

Re: Remembering the Fallen.

Postby Hobbs1951 » 13 Feb 2020, 1:12pm

Mike Sales wrote:
Hobbs1951 wrote:
Mike Sales wrote:
I think that the poem makes it absolutely clear that Owen found the quotation a lie, so you seem to have misread.
The rest of the poem, which I did not quote, is a horrible description of the realities of life and death in the trenches, which he experienced.


Really ?

Owen did choose to return to the front to be with his men after his time at Craiglockart...the poetry is in the pity.

John.


Yes, really. The line I quoted is quite explicit.
Owen returned to the front out of loyalty to his men and a sense of duty.
The poem shows he had no illusions about the horrors of war and was revolted by the cant about it being good to die for ones country.


Not wishing to be pedantic, and don't misunderstand me but the line quoted...dulce...is actually Horace and I did make the point that Owen chose to return to the front despite Sassoon's threat.

John.

Mike Sales
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Joined: 7 Mar 2009, 3:31pm

Re: Remembering the Fallen.

Postby Mike Sales » 13 Feb 2020, 1:16pm

Hobbs1951 wrote:Not wishing to be pedantic, and don't misunderstand me but the line quoted...dulce...is actually Horace and I did make the point that Owen chose to return to the front despite Sassoon's threat.

John.


Your pedantry is superfluous; I am quite aware that Owen was quoting Horace and I don't think that I implied otherwise.

Hobbs1951
Posts: 480
Joined: 15 Apr 2014, 10:48am

Re: Remembering the Fallen.

Postby Hobbs1951 » 13 Feb 2020, 2:06pm

Mike Sales wrote:
Hobbs1951 wrote:Not wishing to be pedantic, and don't misunderstand me but the line quoted...dulce...is actually Horace and I did make the point that Owen chose to return to the front despite Sassoon's threat.

John.


Your pedantry is superfluous; I am quite aware that Owen was quoting Horace and I don't think that I implied otherwise.


I don't think so, you may be aware Mike.

Implied or didn't, there's no reference to Horace in your post.

John.

Mike Sales
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Joined: 7 Mar 2009, 3:31pm

Re: Remembering the Fallen.

Postby Mike Sales » 13 Feb 2020, 2:26pm

Hobbs1951 wrote:

I don't think so, you may be aware Mike.

Implied or didn't, there's no reference to Horace in your post.

John.


That it was a quotation that Owen was reacting against is clear from the poem itself.
I did not think it was particularly important where this frequent lapidary inscription came from, and I note neither did Owen source it.
I do try to be succinct in my posts, and I suppose few readers would want to know who the original was, and few would be familiar with the Roman poets anyway.
Last edited by Mike Sales on 13 Feb 2020, 3:10pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Mick F
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Re: Remembering the Fallen.

Postby Mick F » 13 Feb 2020, 2:27pm

horizon wrote:Does anyone know when we started using the word "veteran"? I always thought that in the UK we referred to ex-servicemen and women as ex-servicemen and women.
Dunno, but it's a silly expression for ex-servicemen generally.

Veteran - to me at least - refers to a specific person who took part in a specific campaign or battle be it as a civilian or anybody at all, be it military or any civil or even a political campaign.

I served in the RN, so I'm an ex-serviceman.

I was in the battle for the Falklands in 1982, so you could say I was a Falklands veteran.
I also served in the Beira Patrol in the early 1970s
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beira_Patrol
...............so you could say I was a Beira Patrol veteran as well?

.................let alone the Cod Wars of the later 1970s. :wink:
Mick F. Cornwall

Hobbs1951
Posts: 480
Joined: 15 Apr 2014, 10:48am

Remembering the Fallen.

Postby Hobbs1951 » 13 Feb 2020, 3:51pm

Mike Sales wrote:I did not think it was particularly important where this frequent lapidary inscription came from, and I note neither did Owen source it.


I'm smiling...and yes the quote is seen on memorials !

John.