Refugees/migrants

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francovendee
Posts: 1523
Joined: 5 May 2009, 6:32am

Re: Refugees/migrants

Postby francovendee » 29 Aug 2020, 6:49pm

Jdsk wrote:Who's the "they"?

If that story is genuine how do you know that the participants are either refugees or migrants?

Jonathan

You beat me to it, I was wondering how we got from some idiots burning a flag to it being refugees or migrants doing it.
However, if you have prejudices it maybe easier to link the two.

roubaixtuesday
Posts: 3273
Joined: 18 Aug 2015, 7:05pm

Re: Refugees/migrants

Postby roubaixtuesday » 29 Aug 2020, 7:05pm

Jdsk wrote:Who's the "they"?

If that story is genuine how do you know that the participants are either refugees or migrants?

Jonathan


And who is "us"

Yakdiver, entire groups of people are not homogenous. Attempting to stereotype groups as such is what the whole problem is.

Just for example, as you're a cyclist are you therefore a red light jumping lycra clad idiot?

Pebble
Posts: 198
Joined: 7 Jun 2020, 11:59pm

Re: Refugees/migrants

Postby Pebble » 29 Aug 2020, 7:19pm

Jdsk wrote:Who's the "they"?

If that story is genuine how do you know that the participants are either refugees or migrants?

Jonathan

I imagine the 'they' are people who hate Britain ? hence the flag burning
hopefully they will become migrants and leave to a country they want to be in. (if they can anywhere that wants them)

roubaixtuesday
Posts: 3273
Joined: 18 Aug 2015, 7:05pm

Re: Refugees/migrants

Postby roubaixtuesday » 29 Aug 2020, 7:45pm

Pebble wrote:
Jdsk wrote:Who's the "they"?

If that story is genuine how do you know that the participants are either refugees or migrants?

Jonathan

I imagine the 'they' are people who hate Britain ? hence the flag burning
hopefully they will become migrants and leave to a country they want to be in. (if they can anywhere that wants them)


Your imagining and the facts may or may not be related.

I wonder why there is such outrage at this, but not at the abuse of national symbols by the likes of Britain First.

Mike Sales
Posts: 5165
Joined: 7 Mar 2009, 3:31pm

Re: Refugees/migrants

Postby Mike Sales » 29 Aug 2020, 8:51pm

Over the centuries refugees and immigrants have improved our industries and enriched our culture. They include Huguenots, Flemings, East European Jews, Ugandan Asians. They all met prejudice and antagonism.

Jdsk
Posts: 2224
Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: Refugees/migrants

Postby Jdsk » 29 Aug 2020, 9:03pm

Mike Sales wrote:Over the centuries refugees and immigrants have improved our industries and enriched our culture. They include Huguenots, Flemings, East European Jews, Ugandan Asians.

... for everyone of us either we or our ancestors migrated here.

Jonathan

Mike Sales
Posts: 5165
Joined: 7 Mar 2009, 3:31pm

Re: Refugees/migrants

Postby Mike Sales » 29 Aug 2020, 9:12pm

Jdsk wrote:... for everyone of us either we or our ancestors migrated here.

Jonathan


Defoe wrote The True-Born Englishman

Thus from a mixture of all kinds began,
That het’rogeneous thing, an Englishman:
In eager rapes, and furious lust begot,
Betwixt a painted Britain and a Scot.
Whose gend’ring off-spring quickly learn’d to bow,
And yoke their heifers to the Roman plough:
From whence a mongrel half-bred race there came,
With neither name, nor nation, speech nor fame.
In whose hot veins new mixtures quickly ran,
Infus’d betwixt a Saxon and a Dane.
While their rank daughters, to their parents just,
Receiv’d all nations with promiscuous lust.
This nauseous brood directly did contain
The well-extracted blood of Englishmen.

Which medly canton’d in a heptarchy,
A rhapsody of nations to supply,
Among themselves maintain’d eternal wars,
And still the ladies lov’d the conquerors.

The western Angles all the rest subdu’d;
A bloody nation, barbarous and rude:
Who by the tenure of the sword possest
One part of Britain, and subdu’d the rest
And as great things denominate the small,
The conqu’ring part gave title to the whole.
The Scot, Pict, Britain, Roman, Dane, submit,
And with the English-Saxon all unite:
And these the mixture have so close pursu’d,
The very name and memory’s subdu’d:
No Roman now, no Britain does remain;
Wales strove to separate, but strove in vain:
The silent nations undistinguish’d fall,
And Englishman’s the common name for all.
Fate jumbled them together, God knows how;
What e’er they were they’re true-born English now.

The wonder which remains is at our pride,
To value that which all wise men deride.
For Englishmen to boast of generation,
Cancels their knowledge, and lampoons the nation.
A true-born Englishman’s a contradiction,
In speech an irony, in fact a fiction.
A banter made to be a test of fools,
Which those that use it justly ridicules.
A metaphor invented to express
A man a-kin to all the universe.

For as the Scots, as learned men ha’ said,
Throughout the world their wand’ring seed ha’ spread;
So open-handed England, ’tis believ’d,
Has all the gleanings of the world receiv’d.

Some think of England ’twas our Saviour meant,
The Gospel should to all the world be sent:
Since, when the blessed sound did hither reach,
They to all nations might be said to preach.

’Tis well that virtue gives nobility,
How shall we else the want of birth and blood supply?
Since scarce one family is left alive,
Which does not from some foreigner derive.


Jdsk
Posts: 2224
Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: Refugees/migrants

Postby Jdsk » 29 Aug 2020, 9:25pm

Daniel Defoe? Raise you a Freddie Mercury...

Somebody (somebody) ooh somebody (somebody)
Can anybody find me somebody to hate?


Although it doesn't sound quite right somehow...

Jonathan

Pebble
Posts: 198
Joined: 7 Jun 2020, 11:59pm

Re: Refugees/migrants

Postby Pebble » 30 Aug 2020, 9:25am

roubaixtuesday wrote:
Pebble wrote:
Jdsk wrote:Who's the "they"?

If that story is genuine how do you know that the participants are either refugees or migrants?

Jonathan

I imagine the 'they' are people who hate Britain ? hence the flag burning
hopefully they will become migrants and leave to a country they want to be in. (if they can anywhere that wants them)


Your imagining and the facts may or may not be related.

I wonder why there is such outrage at this, but not at the abuse of national symbols by the likes of Britain First.

That is true however I don't imagine they are burning the flag because it is a cold day and they are just trying to keep warm. Why do you think they are burning the flag?

If i'm thinking of the same incident as you regarding Britain First and National symbols then there was a lot of outrage, the BBC wnt on about it endlessly and the man was arrested, prosecuted and jailed. I somehow doubt those involved in the flag burning will see similar such justice

Jdsk
Posts: 2224
Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: Refugees/migrants

Postby Jdsk » 30 Aug 2020, 9:45am

Pebble wrote:If i'm thinking of the same incident as you regarding Britain First and National symbols then there was a lot of outrage, the BBC wnt on about it endlessly and the man was arrested, prosecuted and jailed. I somehow doubt those involved in the flag burning will see similar such justice

Which case are you referring to, please?

Thanks

Jonathan

mumbojumbo
Posts: 361
Joined: 1 Aug 2018, 8:18pm

Re: Refugees/migrants

Postby mumbojumbo » 30 Aug 2020, 11:25am

Unread postby Mike Sales » 29 Aug 2020, 8:51pm

Over the centuries refugees and immigrants have improved our industries and enriched our culture. They include Huguenots, Flemings, East European Jews, Ugandan Asians. They all met prejudice and antagonism.


and in many cases continue to receive a traditional British welcome.Most Huguenots I know have managed to escape detection,as have Flemings,excepting Ian and Alexander.

Mike Sales
Posts: 5165
Joined: 7 Mar 2009, 3:31pm

Re: Refugees/migrants

Postby Mike Sales » 30 Aug 2020, 11:53am

mumbojumbo wrote:
Unread postby Mike Sales » 29 Aug 2020, 8:51pm

Over the centuries refugees and immigrants have improved our industries and enriched our culture. They include Huguenots, Flemings, East European Jews, Ugandan Asians. They all met prejudice and antagonism.


and in many cases continue to receive a traditional British welcome.Most Huguenots I know have managed to escape detection,as have Flemings,excepting Ian and Alexander.


I am afraid they often met a "hostile environment".

For instance,

For the Ashkenazi Jews who arrived in large numbers from the 1880s onwards, however, things were very different. They were from poor, rural families in villages and small towns and were escaping the terror of pogroms in Eastern Europe. Most arrived with little or nothing. Many intended to move on to the USA, but when they found themselves in the UK, they settled near their place of arrival. As a result the East End of London gained a highly concentrated Jewish population. The main source of income was the textile trade. Jewish tailors and seamstresses worked at home or in the many sweatshops. For many Jewish migrants, conditions were terrible; living in extreme poverty in overcrowded, cold and damp lodgings. Many were forced into theft and prostitution.
Anti-Semitism was on the rise by the end of the 19th century in the climate of pseudo-scientific racism that claimed some ‘races’ were inferior to others. In novels, short stories and the popular press, Jews were portrayed as sinister, to be feared and were dehumanised. Places such as London’s Whitechapel were written about by journalists as if they were a foreign country. Pressure grew for laws restricting the immigration of ‘foreign aliens’.


Perhaps I should have written, "at first." I imagine our current immigrants will assimilate too.

roubaixtuesday
Posts: 3273
Joined: 18 Aug 2015, 7:05pm

Re: Refugees/migrants

Postby roubaixtuesday » 30 Aug 2020, 2:30pm

Pebble wrote: I somehow doubt those involved in the flag burning will see similar such justice


What law did they break?

Causing outrage amongst people who want to feel righteous indignation is not illegal to my knowledge.

Pebble
Posts: 198
Joined: 7 Jun 2020, 11:59pm

Re: Refugees/migrants

Postby Pebble » 31 Aug 2020, 12:33pm

roubaixtuesday wrote:
Pebble wrote: I somehow doubt those involved in the flag burning will see similar such justice


What law did they break?
.

S5 Public Order - Behaviour likely to cause others fear harassment alarm or distress. Considering the outrage around last night at the proms I would imagine burning the Great British flag would cause a vast amount of alarm and distress - and lets face it they were doing so very publicly to show their hatred towards Great Britain.

Disappointing the police don't feel the need to intervene, they do certainly give some communities a lot more leeway than others.

Jdsk
Posts: 2224
Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: Refugees/migrants

Postby Jdsk » 31 Aug 2020, 5:33pm

Pebble wrote:... I would imagine burning the Great British flag would cause a vast amount of alarm and distress...

If that image is genuine, and even taking into account the technical errors made by the artist, that isn't the flag of Great Britain. It includes the cross of St Patrick.

Jonathan