Strange way to pay

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peetee
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Strange way to pay

Postby peetee » 5 Mar 2020, 8:27pm

Something odd happened when I bought some fuel for the car on Tuesday. I paid at the pump by my debit card (as I usually do) and when I logged into my bank account about three hours later the transaction was for £1.00 not the forty plus pounds I had purchased and it wasn’t listed in the payment pending section which highlights incomplete transactions.
I have just checked today and the £1.00 has changed to the full amount.
Any idea what happened?
Winter had arrived in the land of Kernow. Along with it came wet roads and cool winds.
“Oh, my wheels and coupling rods!” Peetee exclaimed.

Oldjohnw
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Re: Strange way to pay

Postby Oldjohnw » 5 Mar 2020, 8:53pm

Yes. They take a single pound to endure the account is ok. Has happened to me several times with a variety of things.
John

kwackers
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Re: Strange way to pay

Postby kwackers » 5 Mar 2020, 9:36pm

When you pay at the pump the system is automated.

It can't charge you the final amount because it doesn't know what it is yet, but it needs to know your account is valid.
So it charges a pound.
Then you fill your tank and it then refunds the pound and charges the correct amount.

What you see at your bank depends on timing between you and the various systems.

mercalia
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Re: Strange way to pay

Postby mercalia » 5 Mar 2020, 10:23pm

you have to be careful with small charges like that. Thieves often make small purchases with a stolen credit card to see if the card is valid and will work - small purchases often are below the radar of fraud detection systems?

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661-Pete
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Re: Strange way to pay

Postby 661-Pete » 5 Mar 2020, 10:31pm

mercalia wrote:you have to be careful with small charges like that. Thieves often make small purchases with a stolen credit card to see if the card is valid and will work - small purchases often are below the radar of fraud detection systems?
One reason why I never use contactless. At least not in shops - I always insert the card and type the PIN. I'd like to know if there's a means of disabling contactless - except for one thing: I've used it for travelling on the London Underground - where there's no option, unless you want to queue for hours.
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peetee
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Re: Strange way to pay

Postby peetee » 5 Mar 2020, 10:32pm

Fair enough. Doesn’t seem like anything to worry about but some of these scams are pretty sophisticated so I thought I’d check. Cheers!
Winter had arrived in the land of Kernow. Along with it came wet roads and cool winds.
“Oh, my wheels and coupling rods!” Peetee exclaimed.

mercalia
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Re: Strange way to pay

Postby mercalia » 5 Mar 2020, 10:47pm

661-Pete wrote:
mercalia wrote:you have to be careful with small charges like that. Thieves often make small purchases with a stolen credit card to see if the card is valid and will work - small purchases often are below the radar of fraud detection systems?
One reason why I never use contactless. At least not in shops - I always insert the card and type the PIN. I'd like to know if there's a means of disabling contactless - except for one thing: I've used it for travelling on the London Underground - where there's no option, unless you want to queue for hours.


I keep all my cards in a small metal "faraday" like case meant for business cards. I didnt realise until recently that many these days can use an external signal to power them up. Apparantly thats how the succesful spy devices the russians used I think worked. The yanks knew they were being spied on but couldnt find any thing emitting a signal as they thought it needed a battery and would be signaling all the time. But a transmitted signal was all that was needed to power the device up. Apparantly thats why turning off smartphones, even taking the battery out may not prevent data being "retrieved"

DaveReading
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Re: Strange way to pay

Postby DaveReading » 5 Mar 2020, 11:09pm

661-Pete wrote:One reason why I never use contactless. At least not in shops - I always insert the card and type the PIN. I'd like to know if there's a means of disabling contactless - except for one thing: I've used it for travelling on the London Underground - where there's no option, unless you want to queue for hours.

Yes, there's an option - the one that there has always been: ask your bank for a non-contactless card and get an Oyster card instead for use on the Tube.

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[XAP]Bob
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Re: Strange way to pay

Postby [XAP]Bob » 6 Mar 2020, 8:29am

mercalia wrote:
661-Pete wrote:
mercalia wrote:you have to be careful with small charges like that. Thieves often make small purchases with a stolen credit card to see if the card is valid and will work - small purchases often are below the radar of fraud detection systems?
One reason why I never use contactless. At least not in shops - I always insert the card and type the PIN. I'd like to know if there's a means of disabling contactless - except for one thing: I've used it for travelling on the London Underground - where there's no option, unless you want to queue for hours.


I keep all my cards in a small metal "faraday" like case meant for business cards. I didnt realise until recently that many these days can use an external signal to power them up. Apparantly thats how the succesful spy devices the russians used I think worked. The yanks knew they were being spied on but couldnt find any thing emitting a signal as they thought it needed a battery and would be signaling all the time. But a transmitted signal was all that was needed to power the device up. Apparantly thats why turning off smartphones, even taking the battery out may not prevent data being "retrieved"



Called “the thing” it was a sensitive mic, powered via contactless (and designed to be powered over significant distance) designed by Theremin (of musical instrument fame).

Passports and cards can be read from a distance, given appropriate antenna. How far you got to block that depends on your level of risk and paranoia.
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.

Tangled Metal
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Re: Strange way to pay

Postby Tangled Metal » 6 Mar 2020, 8:51am

A more knowledgeable person than I on another forum and a radio 4 current affairs discussion both gave me a piece of information on contact less card payments. Apparently if you do get defrauded the card provider has a higher duty if care such that you are more likely to get your money back with less of a fight. It's got more security behind it such that the experts in the matter all say that contactless payments is more secure and more likely to result in you not losing out than chip and pin.

One advantage is the £30 limit but that's a minor advantage. The main advantage is behind the scenes. Payment isn't withdrawn and sent to the retailer straight away but delayed for processing, usually a day or more. I can't remember if a "shadow" is placed over the money straight away but the point is there's time for bank systems to spot unusual payments. Put bluntly the card providers are more likely to lose out so they have put more security resources into it.

Chip and pin card resulted in a boss losing £5,000 in half an hour at work. His wallet was stolen from his drawer at work when it was believed a guy off the street simply walked brazenly in and rifled a few empty office drawers. They immediately went to sainsbury's and made repeated payments. Apparently they used the swipe and sign option making out the chip didn't work. This was a few years back and I believe he had a real fight to get his money back. With contactless it would have been easier for them to get their purchases but he would have been repaid with little more than telling the bank the cards were stolen. Btw they only had the card 30 minutes or so and still got items with a value of £5000.

As to faraday cage for your cards. Well it's like the RFID protection. Apparently there has never been a recorded Incident of a RFID type attack outside of a laboratory experiment. Never! Theoretically it's possible but there's so many easier ways to defraud you through card based crime that this attack simply isn't realistic. For one the criminal has to hang around in full view of CCTV in a busy location to get any card information. This makes it highly likely they'll get caught. Too high risk. Better to just buy the data for very little to a little bit more for information on people who have been defrauded before.

With a little Google you can find a lot out about card security and secure payment systems from respectable sources. A lot better to get informed that way than let myths and forum derived information. Especially from me! :wink: :D

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Mick F
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Re: Strange way to pay

Postby Mick F » 6 Mar 2020, 9:19am

The £1 charge is also just in case you change your mind and don't take any fuel.
Mick F. Cornwall

mercalia
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Re: Strange way to pay

Postby mercalia » 6 Mar 2020, 9:27am

Tangled Metal wrote:A more knowledgeable person than I on another forum and a radio 4 current affairs discussion both gave me a piece of information on contact less card payments. Apparently if you do get defrauded the card provider has a higher duty if care such that you are more likely to get your money back with less of a fight. It's got more security behind it such that the experts in the matter all say that contactless payments is more secure and more likely to result in you not losing out than chip and pin.

One advantage is the £30 limit but that's a minor advantage. The main advantage is behind the scenes. Payment isn't withdrawn and sent to the retailer straight away but delayed for processing, usually a day or more. I can't remember if a "shadow" is placed over the money straight away but the point is there's time for bank systems to spot unusual payments. Put bluntly the card providers are more likely to lose out so they have put more security resources into it.

Chip and pin card resulted in a boss losing £5,000 in half an hour at work. His wallet was stolen from his drawer at work when it was believed a guy off the street simply walked brazenly in and rifled a few empty office drawers. They immediately went to sainsbury's and made repeated payments. Apparently they used the swipe and sign option making out the chip didn't work. This was a few years back and I believe he had a real fight to get his money back. With contactless it would have been easier for them to get their purchases but he would have been repaid with little more than telling the bank the cards were stolen. Btw they only had the card 30 minutes or so and still got items with a value of £5000.

As to faraday cage for your cards. Well it's like the RFID protection. Apparently there has never been a recorded Incident of a RFID type attack outside of a laboratory experiment. Never! Theoretically it's possible but there's so many easier ways to defraud you through card based crime that this attack simply isn't realistic. For one the criminal has to hang around in full view of CCTV in a busy location to get any card information. This makes it highly likely they'll get caught. Too high risk. Better to just buy the data for very little to a little bit more for information on people who have been defrauded before.

With a little Google you can find a lot out about card security and secure payment systems from respectable sources. A lot better to get informed that way than let myths and forum derived information. Especially from me! :wink: :D


in my case I already had the metal case so why not use it. There have been cases of external atms being interfered with, of inserts being placed over the slot where the card goes, but thats another matter

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NATURAL ANKLING
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Re: Strange way to pay

Postby NATURAL ANKLING » 6 Mar 2020, 9:38am

Hi,
661-Pete wrote:
mercalia wrote:you have to be careful with small charges like that. Thieves often make small purchases with a stolen credit card to see if the card is valid and will work - small purchases often are below the radar of fraud detection systems?
One reason why I never use contactless. At least not in shops - I always insert the card and type the PIN. I'd like to know if there's a means of disabling contactless - except for one thing: I've used it for travelling on the London Underground - where there's no option, unless you want to queue for hours.

But do you always cover the keypad with your other hand?
I stood behind one chap in the post office once, he was drawing out 5K in cash.
Afterwards I suggested to him that we should always cover the keypad with his hand.
I always do this as a matter in fact wherever I am even down the local supermarket et cetera.
Someone In the local news the other day Was prosecuted as part of a gang who would stand behind people in queues at tills to gain their pin number and then mug them outside down the street.
You tend to find that the people who do not cover the keypad to protect their pin, also reuse passwords and simple things like names and date codes.
Fact 2/3 of people actually reuse passwords, those tend to be also simple like their pets name.
You're not one of those are you Pete?
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Please forgive the poor Grammar I blame it on my mobile and phat thinkers.

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Mick F
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Re: Strange way to pay

Postby Mick F » 6 Mar 2020, 10:14am

Said on here before, my pin number is the birthday of a dog we once had many years ago.
Mick F. Cornwall

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NATURAL ANKLING
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Re: Strange way to pay

Postby NATURAL ANKLING » 6 Mar 2020, 10:35am

Hi,
Mick F wrote:Said on here before, my pin number is the birthday of a dog we once had many years ago.

But that's simply bad isn't it!
Any other security tips for us?
NA Thinks Just End 2 End Return + Bivvy
You'll Still Find Me At The Top Of A Hill
Please forgive the poor Grammar I blame it on my mobile and phat thinkers.