Panic buying, hoarding

[kylecycler]

Are their any contingencies in place for care workers ?

From this morning's Guardian: A carer, a GP and a social worker...

https://www.theguardian.com/society/202 ... uel-crisis

[pwa]

Relying on market forces to improve pay is a very poor alternative to minimum wage legislation and a fair benefits system and redistributive taxation.

It will only work as long as shortage of labour exists, and we should have measures that work all of the time.

Jonathan

I agree that a good decent minimum wage (higher than the present level) is essential, but on its own it is something that employers will try to work around. I have seen cleaners employed for fewer hours but required to clean the same number of rooms in a school in order to keep their wages at the same level after the minimum wage went up. I have seen wage incentives such as a night time premium withdrawn to keep wages down when the minimum wage has gone up. And it isn't just the wage, it is the conditions too. The only thing that really secures good treatment from employers is when they know they really do need to hang on to good staff because replacing them will not be easy.

By the way, I drove one of my employer's vehicles to a petrol station yesterday and got to a working pump within about three minutes of arriving. I was limited to £30 of fuel, but apart from that it was a smooth, pain free process. In that location, beside a supermarket, the panic seems to be subsiding.

[Vorpal]

The only thing that really secures good treatment from employers is when they know they really do need to hang on to good staff because replacing them will not be easy.

That does not work. When a supervisor or middle manager succeeds in building a good team & wants to retain staff, they are often not given the resources to do so. Their managers, Human Resources, internal politics & budgetary constraints all limit 'good treatment'. Very, very few companies have good people retention cultures, and most of those that do are relatively small.

The working culture in the UK is actually going the other way, and treating increasing numbers of workers as 'gig' workers. This has the advantage not only of making it easier to replace them, it transfers increasing amounts of administrative work, and work & financial risk to the employee. I don't see that getting better without legislation.

There are all sorts of reasons for that, and it happens all over the world. The exceptions are mainly because of individual owners or CEOs who see things differently, rather than any country or culture that does things substantially better.

I think that the gig work approach is a viable one. I wouldn't mind working that way myself, if there was some other sort of security or safety net provided. I seriously considered it last year. I was furloughed because of covid, yet I got enough freelance work to make more money than I normally would & I got more time off, as well. The hours when I was working were sometimes crazy, but I'm okay with working a couple of 70 hour work weeks to make 2 months worth of my normal salary.

The main problem with that sort of work is the risk that I cannot get enough work. What if I go 6 months without any work? How do I pay my mortgage? Feed my family? And, even in Scandinavia, the safety net is much weaker for freelancers and gig workers than permanent employees.

IMO, something like universal basic income (UBI) would allow more of that sort of thing, and give both employers and employees more flexibility. I can see employers opposing it though. Fed up employees might decide they don't have to do crap jobs for peanuts, anymore.

[Jdsk]

Relying on market forces to improve pay is a very poor alternative to minimum wage legislation and a fair benefits system and redistributive taxation.

It will only work as long as shortage of labour exists, and we should have measures that work all of the time.

I agree that a good decent minimum wage (higher than the present level) is essential, but on its own it is something that employers will try to work around. I have seen cleaners employed for fewer hours but required to clean the same number of rooms in a school in order to keep their wages at the same level after the minimum wage went up. I have seen wage incentives such as a night time premium withdrawn to keep wages down when the minimum wage has gone up.

That can be handled by appropriate regulation and legislation. Glimpses of success can be seen in the EU's progress on the treatment of agency workers and in the successive cases pursued against Uber.

Jonathan

[Oldjohnw]

Left to market forces stuffing boys up chimneys would still be a good idea. Cheap, dispensable and who cares? Slaves were good for the market, too. No cost labour.

[thirdcrank]

Point of information: slavery is said to be an inefficient system of production, but don't ask me for a source.

[Oldjohnw]

Point of information: slavery is said to be an inefficient system of production, but don't ask me for a source.

I'm sure it is. But it would appeal because it seemed cheap. That's the thing with market forces which are themselves inefficient which is why they constantly need manipulated and rigged. Some think selling of railways/prisons/whatever saves money which is why they do it. It save nothing.

[thirdcrank]

What we are seeing with tanker drivers seems to be a result of outsourcing - companies specialising in only part of the system. So, specialist delivery firms turn to agencies to provide the drivers (and probably leasing companies to provide and maintain the tanker fleet.) The agencies organise the supply of drivers - for a fee - but play no other significant part. This model assumes that somebody else will train the drivers with the skills to drive HGVs and the H&S requirements of handling fuel. Incidentally, the inevitable labour shortages of this model as fewer new drivers join the workforce have been delayed by recruiting abroad. There seem to have been other contributors eg clamping down on drivers forming their own company to enjoy the tax advantages exploited by their betters.

This has been going on for some years in many sectors of our industry so it should come as no surprise.

[[XAP]Bob]

Point of information: slavery is said to be an inefficient system of production, but don't ask me for a source.

Probably depends how you measure efficiency.

[thirdcrank]

I probably should have said "least productive."
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PS On the subject of motor fuel supply problems, I see they are spinning the idea of special arrangements for "key workers." In my own line of work, the the places at the head of any arrangements will be taken by the most senior officers, especially those in administrative positions, possibly elbowed out by high-ranking "civvies." If it's just a matter of turning up at the pumps and showing ID, then friends and relations will be provided for. I suspect that the same will apply across the board. A large part of society works for the NHS in one capacity or another and the senior admin people will need petrol/ diesel before all those in operational roles.

[661-Pete]

I probably should have said "least productive."

It was 'productive - but in a different sense. Think: Thomas Jefferson...

[Oldjohnw]

If we need special arrangement for key workers, special visas for people we just recently kicked out, the army on standby and fuel in the wrong place, there is, despite insistence otherwise, a fuel problem.

A problem my earlier post demonstrated was anticipated 5 years ago.

Johnson should prenez le grip.

[Debs]

When we had the Brexit referendum vote, we should all have received an official certificate to show how we voted, so that in times like this, with the Brexit induced fuel shortage, only Remain voter certificate holders would be allowed in a Remain voter express queue so they can fill up first. This is only fair because remainers have not caused this crisis

[reohn2]

When we had the Brexit referendum vote, we should all have received an official certificate to show how we voted, so that in times like this, with the Brexit induced fuel shortage, only Remain voter certificate holders would be allowed in a Remain voter express queue so they can fill up first. This is only fair because remainers have not caused this crisis

Yer not wrong

[Mick F]

Crisis?
What crisis?

The only crisis is that we are addicted to car-ownership.
Bring back the trains and the busses and the local jobs and local shops.

Some folk car-commute 20odd miles to work - 40mile round trip. Usually one person per car, and often much more than 40miles round trip.

Tavistock has hundreds of new houses built.
There isn't a new school, or more shops, or more busses. Part of the agreement to build these houses was to build a new railway station and part fund the re-laying of the line so Tavy could be connected to Plymouth again - all closed in 1967.
People could let the train take the strain, rather than queuing up for petrol.

This situation is replicated all over the country.