Tomorrows lecky prices ( for Octopus customers )

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kwackers
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Tomorrows lecky prices ( for Octopus customers )

Postby kwackers » 4 Apr 2020, 5:58pm

First time I've seen this, negative energy prices for most of the day!
Combination of sun, wind, warm weather and less industrial usage I guess...


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Cyril Haearn
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Re: Tomorrows lecky prices.

Postby Cyril Haearn » 4 Apr 2020, 7:29pm

What, one gets a credit for consuming power? Is it worth trying to hoard energy in batteries?
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kwackers
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Re: Tomorrows lecky prices.

Postby kwackers » 4 Apr 2020, 9:27pm

Cyril Haearn wrote:What, one gets a credit for consuming power? Is it worth trying to hoard energy in batteries?

Essentially that's what this is trying to do (get you to hoard it).

There's going to be too much energy tomorrow so you'd use it to charge batteries (or your car) and then when there's a deficit use the stored energy rather than pay through the nose.

Doesn't happen that often - although it gets very cheap fairly frequently but this is the first time I've ever seen it go negative during the day usually it's just during the night especially if there's a breeze...

surlyant
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Re: Tomorrows lecky prices ( for Octopus customers )

Postby surlyant » 6 Apr 2020, 9:16am

That's interesting but if this how cheap it gets on a good day, how expensive does it get on a bad day?

Also, what steps are taken to discourage the misuse of energy. E.g. running your tumble drier empty during the negative price periods?

Thanks

I'm a trendy consumer. Just look at my Mi A1 using hovercraft full of eels.

kwackers
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Re: Tomorrows lecky prices ( for Octopus customers )

Postby kwackers » 6 Apr 2020, 10:05am

surlyant wrote:That's interesting but if this how cheap it gets on a good day, how expensive does it get on a bad day?

Also, what steps are taken to discourage the misuse of energy. E.g. running your tumble drier empty during the negative price periods?

Thanks

I'm a trendy consumer. Just look at my Mi A1 using hovercraft full of eels.

The most expensive period is 4:30 to 7 on an evening, maximum prices are capped at 35p / kwh which is expensive but very rarely reaches that level and since it's peak time then obviously they're trying to discourage you from using energy then. (18p or so is much more usual during that period)
If you can shift your consumption then as a tariff there are big savings, otherwise it can cost you more.

In terms of misusing energy - you can't, not really...
Basically if the grid produces too much power then power generators are paid to shut down. It's cheaper to pay you to use that energy rather than shut them down.

The real purpose is to persuade those that can to shift their energy usage to off-peak times and 'flatten' the usage curve.
Power delivery becomes flatter and less generators need turning on and off which is a good thing for everyone.
(It's how places like Dinorwig make their money. Store energy when it's cheap, sell it back when it's expensive).

https://octopus.energy/agile/#what-does-it-cost

rjb
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Re: Tomorrows lecky prices ( for Octopus customers )

Postby rjb » 6 Apr 2020, 11:58am

This can only work for those customers who have a smart meter as the supplier can record your consumption on a 1/2 hourly basis. I wish I could have one but the mobile signal where we live is rubbish and none of my neighbours who have had smart meters installed can get them to work.
:(
Out of interest how does octopus notify you of the tariff in advance.
Presumably if the tariff is negative you get a credit for using energy during that period. Time to run you immersion heater, fan heaters, oven, etc just to burn electric. Reminiscent of the renewable heat incentive which crashed the NI government. https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source= ... ScavVy2Ee- :shock:
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kwackers
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Re: Tomorrows lecky prices ( for Octopus customers )

Postby kwackers » 6 Apr 2020, 2:32pm

rjb wrote:This can only work for those customers who have a smart meter as the supplier can record your consumption on a 1/2 hourly basis. I wish I could have one but the mobile signal where we live is rubbish and none of my neighbours who have had smart meters installed can get them to work.
:(
Out of interest how does octopus notify you of the tariff in advance.
Presumably if the tariff is negative you get a credit for using energy during that period. Time to run you immersion heater, fan heaters, oven, etc just to burn electric. Reminiscent of the renewable heat incentive which crashed the NI government. https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source= ... ScavVy2Ee- :shock:
Cheers roger

They will mail you the next 24 hours pricing (or you can use an app, get a message, might be a website too).
Also since I use it to charge my car the cars charger is 'smart' in that it automatically works out the cheapest time(s) to charge the car by accessing the online info.
You'd imagine that in the future a lot of the smart devices would do something similar.

Yeah, sadly it does require you to have a working smart meter. There was a thread on here not so long ago which seemed predominated about why folk wouldn't have one, so I figured this would demonstrate why having one might be a good idea.

I guess you could simply turn loads of stuff on and 'waste' electricity but I don't think anyone is really that bothered.
The gains aren't as great as the saving from not having to pay full price plus you'd have to fit timers to everything and set them every day (and most days the price is very cheap, but not negative).

Immersion heater would be a good one though.
My water is heated from my gas boiler. But no reason why it couldn't be 'smart' and use free lecky overnight to heat up. That way come morning the water is pretty much at temp and I save the gas I'd have used to heat it.

mercalia
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Re: Tomorrows lecky prices ( for Octopus customers )

Postby mercalia » 7 Apr 2020, 12:10pm


kwackers
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Re: Tomorrows lecky prices ( for Octopus customers )

Postby kwackers » 7 Apr 2020, 1:40pm

mercalia wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/apr/05/thousands-to-be-paid-for-daytime-green-electricity-use-during-lockdown?


a topsey turvy world? not just free but paying you. I wish Lidl would do the same

Anyone with a smart meter should seriously think about how they're paying for their lecky - particularly if you don't mind avoiding using the big consuming items during 4:30pm - 7pm or can shift some of them outside of those hours.

mercalia
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Re: Tomorrows lecky prices ( for Octopus customers )

Postby mercalia » 12 Oct 2020, 3:53pm

mercalia wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/apr/05/thousands-to-be-paid-for-daytime-green-electricity-use-during-lockdown?


a topsey turvy world? not just free but paying you. I wish Lidl would do the same


or any of the supermarkets pay you to take away food dated to expire that day? better than putting in the bin

Pebble
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Re: Tomorrows lecky prices ( for Octopus customers )

Postby Pebble » 12 Oct 2020, 4:45pm

so they would literally pay you to charge your car up during the night ?

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[XAP]Bob
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Re: Tomorrows lecky prices ( for Octopus customers )

Postby [XAP]Bob » 13 Oct 2020, 9:42am

Yes - that’s the point of agile tariffs.

If you can use the power it’s cheaper for the grid to that power used than to see the generators shut down.
I expect this will become less common as grid scale storage is implanted (assuming it is ever implemented as grid scale rather than just tapping into the large numbers of smart batteries with wheels which we be connected).

But it’s an excellent method of dealing with electricity cost.
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
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RickH
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Re: Tomorrows lecky prices ( for Octopus customers )

Postby RickH » 14 Oct 2020, 1:17am

mercalia wrote:
mercalia wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/apr/05/thousands-to-be-paid-for-daytime-green-electricity-use-during-lockdown?


a topsey turvy world? not just free but paying you. I wish Lidl would do the same


or any of the supermarkets pay you to take away food dated to expire that day? better than putting in the bin

Relatively little gets thrown out these days by the supermarkets.

I do some voluntary work a couple of times a week for the local charity that runs the main foodbank in the town. Usually I spend my time sorting through endo of date fruit & veg collected from the smaller local supermarkets. The good stuff goes out to recipients, the not good enough for human recipients gets collected by some local pig farmers & the bad stuff goes to the council food waste recycling & ends up as compost.

There is an organisation called Fare Share that operates nationally with the big supermarkets collecting end of date stuff & getting it out to organisations that run foodbank, etc.

On the electricity side of things, there are some interesting things likely to be available soon that smart meters enable, such as "vehicle to grid" - where you can get paid to effectively sell a little (a few percent) of your car's charge back to the grid at high demand times. That opens the possibility of not only being paid to charge your EV but also being paid again to supply some of it back to the grid.

You could do similar with home battery storage with the additional option of charging that from solar panels.

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Re: Tomorrows lecky prices ( for Octopus customers )

Postby gbnz » 14 Oct 2020, 6:09am

[XAP]Bob wrote:
But it’s an excellent method of dealing with electricity cost.


And just last night I was reviewing my initial ten days with Octopus. I was aware that Octopus are a cash hungry company, taking payments for electricity & gas prior to it being used, effectively on a prepayment basis . Likewise I was aware that the standing charges are sky high, thus they can offer super cheap rates. But somehow in ten days, my utility bill already works out at 33% more expensive than my normal monthly bill (Nb. Heating not yet on, tumble drier never used). One I'm keeping a close eye on :?

kwackers
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Re: Tomorrows lecky prices ( for Octopus customers )

Postby kwackers » 14 Oct 2020, 10:55am

gbnz wrote:And just last night I was reviewing my initial ten days with Octopus. I was aware that Octopus are a cash hungry company, taking payments for electricity & gas prior to it being used, effectively on a prepayment basis . Likewise I was aware that the standing charges are sky high, thus they can offer super cheap rates. But somehow in ten days, my utility bill already works out at 33% more expensive than my normal monthly bill (Nb. Heating not yet on, tumble drier never used). One I'm keeping a close eye on :?

All of that is why you shop around (you did pick a company that offered a cheaper overall tariff presumably...)

If most of my energy use was during the day / early evening like a lot of peoples then I wouldn't be with Octopus.
Having said that every energy company I've ever used run a predicted cost direct debit, sometimes you're ahead, sometimes behind. If you've only just started coming up to winter I'd imagine you'd finish the winter ahead.

If your bills are higher then it's easy to check, just look at your own meter. If the numbers are right then you're using more energy - simples.

For me personally, if I plug the numbers in for my energy consumption no other energy company comes close - although I'm currently not aware of any other energy company offering Agile tariffs, perhaps in a few years there'll be more choice.