What effects upon society caused by (COVID-19)?

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Tinpotflowers
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What effects upon society caused by (COVID-19)?

Postby Tinpotflowers » 15 Apr 2020, 11:22am

Coronavirus (COVID-19) and long terms effects upon society?

COVID-19 as had and may continue to have a very disrupted effect in the UK and elsewhere.
I read on this forum many have discussed the consequences of the lockdown and other requirements of this crisis.
Some have suggested there may knock effect on the UK and other place transport policy but have been limited in their suggestion.

Likewise, some commentators have alluded to the reappraisal of the worth that society attributed to low grade /low paid workers e.g. dust bin men, cleaners, delivery drivers, etc.

Also, once past the initial shock of the onset of this crisis the academic world than the media and now on this forum comments have been made on the lack of foresight and poor planning that as made is crises worse it needs to be.

What do the contributor to this forum think will be the long-term effect of this crises in the UK and in general the world and for cycling and of course Cycling UK?
Last edited by Tinpotflowers on 15 Apr 2020, 9:27pm, edited 2 times in total.

mercalia
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Re: Coronavirus (COVID-19) and long terms effects upon society?

Postby mercalia » 15 Apr 2020, 12:28pm

The bankers and corporate UK will pick up where they left off? The rich will regard it as an opportunity to advance their wealth ( we have already seen that with a hedgefund part owned by the "undertaker"?)

Mike Sales
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Re: Coronavirus (COVID-19) and long terms effects upon society?

Postby Mike Sales » 15 Apr 2020, 12:35pm

mercalia wrote:The bankers and corporate UK will pick up where they left off? The rich will regard it as an opportunity to advance their wealth ( we have already seen that with a hedgefund part owned by the "undertaker"?)


Naomi Klein argues that this crisis will be treated as an opportunity by the rich, as previous crises have been.

Author, activist and journalist Naomi Klein says the coronavirus crisis, like earlier ones, could be a catalyst to shower aid on the wealthiest interests in society, including those most responsible for our current vulnerabilities, while offering next to nothing to most workers and small businesses. In 2007, Klein wrote “The Shock Doctrine: The Rise of Disaster Capitalism.” Now she argues President Trump’s plan is a pandemic shock doctrine. In a new video for The Intercept, where she is a senior correspondent, Klein argues it’s vital for people to fight for the kind of transformative change that can not only curb the worst effects of the current crisis but also set society on a more just path.


https://www.democracynow.org/2020/3/19/naomi_klein_coronavirus_capitalism

Psamathe
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Re: Coronavirus (COVID-19) and long terms effects upon society?

Postby Psamathe » 15 Apr 2020, 12:53pm

Mike Sales wrote:
mercalia wrote:The bankers and corporate UK will pick up where they left off? The rich will regard it as an opportunity to advance their wealth ( we have already seen that with a hedgefund part owned by the "undertaker"?)


Naomi Klein argues that this crisis will be treated as an opportunity by the rich, as previous crises have been.
....

I think predicting the long term effects from where we are now is no more than guessing possibilities as there are so many variables that could go any number of ways. And all mixed up with e.g. US elections which could see ever more trade disruption as Trump's racism escalates or sees the US try and rejoin the international community (tail between its legs after the previous 4 years embarrassment).

However, my gut feeling is that the wealthy will do very nicely and those in need, the vulnerable will suffer. I can't argue my reasoning why I feel this but maybe it's just the way the world is going these days and those making the decisions are those who stand to benefit ...

Ian

Mike Sales
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Re: Coronavirus (COVID-19) and long terms effects upon society?

Postby Mike Sales » 15 Apr 2020, 12:59pm

Psamathe wrote:I think predicting the long term effects from where we are now is no more than guessing possibilities as there are so many variables that could go any number of ways. And all mixed up with e.g. US elections which could see ever more trade disruption as Trump's racism escalates or sees the US try and rejoin the international community (tail between its legs after the previous 4 years embarrassment).

However, my gut feeling is that the wealthy will do very nicely and those in need, the vulnerable will suffer. I can't argue my reasoning why I feel this but maybe it's just the way the world is going these days and those making the decisions are those who stand to benefit ...

Ian


That is usually the way things have gone.

It's the same the whole world over, It's the poor that get the blame, It's the rich that get the pleasure, Ain't it all a bloody shame.

mercalia
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Re: Coronavirus (COVID-19) and long terms effects upon society?

Postby mercalia » 15 Apr 2020, 1:15pm

well given the number of people who voted for Johnson and the torys in the last election, shows there are too many people who have no grasp where their best interests lay? So not optimistic there will be any seismic change.

One good thing. I understand we will soon have a Virtual Parliament?

if so maybe we no longer need MPs to travel from their constituencies all the time. Just a video link? This would mean a saving on MP expences? The MPs will be where they should be, most of the time?

And what about the Lords? and their expences? No need for them to en-mass sleep hmm attend the other place any more and no longer any need to pay them attendance expences?

The same for business and then what about HS2 - that £100bn could be more usefully spent? ( but I hear it has been given the go ahead - asl ong as they social distance :roll: )

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al_yrpal
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Re: Coronavirus (COVID-19) and long terms effects upon society?

Postby al_yrpal » 15 Apr 2020, 1:59pm

The crisis will deprive many businesses of capital and thus be unable to pay suppliers. Others wont be able to pay rent or taxes and slip into insolvency destroying jobs. The public sector will continue largely unaffected. 35% contraction is a huge hit to the amount of money in circulation.
However the banksters make money when shares, currency and comodities go either up or down so with large movements some of them will make shedloads. Banks will be stressed to the limit so more currency printing by governments to shore them up. Already squeals of anger from Club Med regarding the richest EU members reluctant to bail out the worst affected.
Sadly I dont think our attitudes to the least well paid is going to result in better wages for them. Everyone will be focussed on surviving themselves. It will be a long road back to economic health.

Al
Touring on a bicycle is a great way to explore and appreciate the countryside and towns you pass through. Make a difference...

mattsccm
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Re: What effects upon society caused by (COVID-19)?

Postby mattsccm » 17 Apr 2020, 8:56pm

Noticed that so many of the closed businesses are from the luxury sector? By which I mean the non essential as. Holidays, cafes, pubs. Airlines! What a shame that so many people make a living from them! Dog groomers, the car industry.
All have their uses and may be important to our economy but the world would be better without them.
Bet you that we very quickly revert to type. Captain Tom may be remembered. We will say nice things about nurses. Before long we will all be jamming up shopping malls and beaches. The national parks will be horrible places due to over crowding and the roads will be awful. Every clever soul will be blaming someone else for it, they already are. It was obviously all a scam by Boris to take our minds off Brexit etc.
Taxes will go up, whingers will whinge,kids will go to school poorly fed whilst mum smokes and has a 60 " telly and plays the bingo.
At least used bikes will be cheap when all those pretending to like exercise realise that its hard work and they end up on eBay.
I have little faith as you can see. For every kind soul there is a selfish counterpart.

Carlton green
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Re: What effects upon society caused by (COVID-19)?

Postby Carlton green » 17 Apr 2020, 10:50pm

mattsccm wrote:Noticed that so many of the closed businesses are from the luxury sector? By which I mean the non essential as. Holidays, cafes, pubs. Airlines! What a shame that so many people make a living from them! Dog groomers, the car industry.
All have their uses and may be important to our economy but the world would be better without them.
Bet you that we very quickly revert to type. Captain Tom may be remembered. We will say nice things about nurses. Before long we will all be jamming up shopping malls and beaches. The national parks will be horrible places due to over crowding and the roads will be awful. Every clever soul will be blaming someone else for it, they already are. It was obviously all a scam by Boris to take our minds off Brexit etc.
Taxes will go up, whingers will whinge,kids will go to school poorly fed whilst mum smokes and has a 60 " telly and plays the bingo.
At least used bikes will be cheap when all those pretending to like exercise realise that its hard work and they end up on eBay.
I have little faith as you can see. For every kind soul there is a selfish counterpart.


I’m inclined to think that your judgement of what is non essential dams the useful. Holidays are certainly useful and I’m currently missing the use of Cafes. I rarely use Pubs but for some the social contact is very positive whilst for others the consequences of use are not so positive. I don’t fly and would be glad for aviation to be at least halved in size but for purposeful (non leisure) flights the industry has some positives. Dog Groomers, well not all cuts are fancy and some provide necessary care for the animal’s coat. The car industry is a blight but at times it usefully moves people around. It’s all about appropriate use of resources and before the virus we were poor at that, likely we’ll resort to type though.

I’ve always had some community spirit and appreciation but this virus has made me appreciate the community in which I live more. Neighbours are important too though we often ignore them we need to understand local interdependence and value it better. People will forget in time but they have seem a quieter U.K. and some have got out on their bikes or got their walking shoes on. People have had to manage without Pubs, Restaurants and other places that shaped their lives and better acquaint themselves with home life and family. There will be some positive legacies from the ‘lockdown’ but the economic ones will be harsh. I can’t see how it is possible to avoid some form of recession and that will have many negatives to it. Somehow we needed to better manage this ‘lockdown’ such that more people remained able to work, such fine tuning isn’t easy but it is certainly necessary for a happier future.

francovendee
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Re: What effects upon society caused by (COVID-19)?

Postby francovendee » 18 Apr 2020, 8:11am

The heroic doctors and nurses will soon be pushed to the back of the government's mind.

Everyone will be a lot poorer except for the rich.

The Tory party will manage to convince the nation that no matter how bad things get it would have been worse under labour. :cry:

We'll learn nothing from this emergency, certainly not long term.

Oldjohnw
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Re: What effects upon society caused by (COVID-19)?

Postby Oldjohnw » 18 Apr 2020, 8:17am

Here's a bit of cognitive dissonance. National pride - including in the government - over a very old man raising money for the NHS which has been underfunded by the Tory Government that people voted for.

I applaud his work but it beggars belief that he should feel he has to do this.
John

gbnz
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Re: What effects upon society caused by (COVID-19)?

Postby gbnz » 18 Apr 2020, 8:34am

[quote="Oldjohnw" over a very old man raising money for the NHS which has been underfunded by the Tory Government .[/quote]

What proportion of the NHS's fundings coming from this crowd funding exercise. As opposed to Gvt funding?

Oldjohnw
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Re: What effects upon society caused by (COVID-19)?

Postby Oldjohnw » 18 Apr 2020, 8:51am

gbnz wrote:[quote="Oldjohnw" over a very old man raising money for the NHS which has been underfunded by the Tory Government .


What proportion of the NHS's fundings coming from this crowd funding exercise. As opposed to Gvt funding?[/quote]

Off the top of my head I don't know although I assume a tiny proportion.
John

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Re: What effects upon society caused by (COVID-19)?

Postby PH » 18 Apr 2020, 5:40pm

Oldjohnw wrote:
gbnz wrote:[quote="Oldjohnw" over a very old man raising money for the NHS which has been underfunded by the Tory Government .


What proportion of the NHS's fundings coming from this crowd funding exercise. As opposed to Gvt funding?

Off the top of my head I don't know although I assume a tiny proportion.

Captain Tom's is a nice feelgood story and an incredible amount of money raised, £23 million at the last count. It wasn't intended as a political gesture and IMO it's wrong for anyone, with any POV to make it one.
The money was raised for NHS Charities, it spends money on things not covered by the NHS budget, whatever the arguments about what should and shouldn't be in those budgets, there will always be a place where charitable donations can be used for something extra.

reohn2
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Re: What effects upon society caused by (COVID-19)?

Postby reohn2 » 18 Apr 2020, 5:44pm

Oldjohnw wrote:Here's a bit of cognitive dissonance. National pride - including in the government - over a very old man raising money for the NHS which has been underfunded by the Tory Government that people voted for.

I applaud his work but it beggars belief that he should feel he has to do this.

Nail,head,on!
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