What should the UK govt do about Branson & Virgin Atlantic?

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mercalia
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What should the UK govt do about Branson & Virgin Atlantic?

Postby mercalia » 21 Apr 2020, 4:29pm

1) If you want British taxpayers’ money, you must pay British taxes
2) The UK government will not bailout ‘British’ firms that use offshore havens to reduce their tax bills or even avoid them altogether
3) If airlines want public money, they must commit to reducing greenhouse gas emissions
4) If any listed company wants public money for its survival, it must offer the public a portion of its shares.


is the suggestion given by Nick Cohen
https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-price-of-bailing-out-the-likes-of-richard-branson?

if it was a Labour govt then they would do all the above and swoop on all the companies in distress and use the profits to make this a better country?

forcing these companies to give the govt shares is the only way to get around the tax avoidance they all do, since where ever they go we would get our "cut"?
Last edited by mercalia on 21 Apr 2020, 7:59pm, edited 2 times in total.

PH
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Re: What should the UK govt do about Branson & Virgin Atlantic?

Postby PH » 21 Apr 2020, 4:59pm

I only managed the first sentence of that article, most of it is behind a paywall (If you've read some already)
Richard Branson is asking British taxpayers – a club he resigned from when he moved his affairs to the lax tax regime of the Virgin Islands – to bail him out.
It isn't true, no one is being asked to bail Richard Branson out, he'll still be a multi billionaire whatever happens to the airline.
It shouldn't be about him. or his tax affairs, however much we despise him or them. It should be about whether the government thinks it's right to protect a company, it's employers and the associated industries. I note Rolls Royce* and Airbus are supporting Virgin's request for assistance. RR is one of the three major employers locally, they're already going to be badly hit, I know one of their local tooling suppliers won't survive, that's around 40 jobs gone for a start.
This should be judged on the business case and that alone, then if assistance is given the taxpayer ought to get best value from it (It's a pity we didn't get that when we bailed the banks out, maybe we'd have more influence on what they're doing to help) Then there's the question of competition, we can't pick and choose those businesses to help based on the director, so if no help for VA then no help for any airline, anything else would soon end up in court.
I don't know what the Labour Party would do, or what i think should be done, I just feel basing it on Branson would be wrong.

*RR, who Ted Heath bailed out, though he left it very late and it would have been better and cheaper to have stepped in earlier as the opposition were calling for.

mercalia
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Re: What should the UK govt do about Branson & Virgin Atlantic?

Postby mercalia » 21 Apr 2020, 5:29pm

PH wrote:I only managed the first sentence of that article, most of it is behind a paywall (If you've read some already)
Richard Branson is asking British taxpayers – a club he resigned from when he moved his affairs to the lax tax regime of the Virgin Islands – to bail him out.
It isn't true, no one is being asked to bail Richard Branson out, he'll still be a multi billionaire whatever happens to the airline.
It shouldn't be about him. or his tax affairs, however much we despise him or them. It should be about whether the government thinks it's right to protect a company, it's employers and the associated industries. I note Rolls Royce* and Airbus are supporting Virgin's request for assistance. RR is one of the three major employers locally, they're already going to be badly hit, I know one of their local tooling suppliers won't survive, that's around 40 jobs gone for a start.
This should be judged on the business case and that alone, then if assistance is given the taxpayer ought to get best value from it (It's a pity we didn't get that when we bailed the banks out, maybe we'd have more influence on what they're doing to help) Then there's the question of competition, we can't pick and choose those businesses to help based on the director, so if no help for VA then no help for any airline, anything else would soon end up in court.
I don't know what the Labour Party would do, or what i think should be done, I just feel basing it on Branson would be wrong.

*RR, who Ted Heath bailed out, though he left it very late and it would have been better and cheaper to have stepped in earlier as the opposition were calling for.


try the link again it may work now

rjb
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Re: What should the UK govt do about Branson & Virgin Atlantic?

Postby rjb » 21 Apr 2020, 5:29pm

We shouldnt give them a penny. After all Virgin Atlantic is owned by the Americans, , French and Dutch and a minority stake by Virgin itself who probably run it offshore so no burden on the uk. Why dont they bail it out. :(
Virgin Atlantic is owned by the Virgin Group (20%), Air France-KLM (31%) and Delta Air Lines (49%).
At the last count:- Peugeot 531 pro, Dawes Discovery Tandem, Dawes Kingpin, Raleigh 20, Falcon K2 MTB dropped bar tourer, Longstaff trike conversion on a Falcon corsa. :D

PH
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Re: What should the UK govt do about Branson & Virgin Atlantic?

Postby PH » 21 Apr 2020, 5:42pm

rjb wrote:Virgin Atlantic is owned by the Virgin Group (20%), Air France-KLM (31%) and Delta Air Lines (49%).

Whatever your opinion, your information is wrong.
He changed his mind about selling to KLM though he may now regret that :lol:
https://inews.co.uk/news/business/richa ... lm-1330277
Last edited by PH on 21 Apr 2020, 5:47pm, edited 1 time in total.

PH
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Re: What should the UK govt do about Branson & Virgin Atlantic?

Postby PH » 21 Apr 2020, 5:44pm

mercalia wrote:try the link again it may work now

Thanks, it wasn't your link. You can only read a certain number of Spectator articles a month before registering and I've exceeded that.

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al_yrpal
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Re: What should the UK govt do about Branson & Virgin Atlantic?

Postby al_yrpal » 21 Apr 2020, 5:56pm

Never been impressed by Virgin as a carrier in the air or on the rails. Seem to remember Virgin refused to bail out Flybe which did a big bit of public service so on that basis taxpayers shouldnt help. Big business can look after itself and offshore tax avoiders can too. Its not really a vital British business.

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merseymouth
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Re: What should the UK govt do about Branson & Virgin Atlantic?

Postby merseymouth » 21 Apr 2020, 6:00pm

No Dosh from me! All air travel should be funded by the passengers who take advantage of the service. I don't use them, so why should I have to pay for them?
No, don't bring up TV Licence, or Weapons in general, I wouldn't pay for them either! :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: MM

pete75
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Re: What should the UK govt do about Branson & Virgin Atlantic?

Postby pete75 » 21 Apr 2020, 6:30pm

PH wrote:I only managed the first sentence of that article, most of it is behind a paywall (If you've read some already)
Richard Branson is asking British taxpayers – a club he resigned from when he moved his affairs to the lax tax regime of the Virgin Islands – to bail him out.
It isn't true, no one is being asked to bail Richard Branson out, he'll still be a multi billionaire whatever happens to the airline.
It shouldn't be about him. or his tax affairs, however much we despise him or them. It should be about whether the government thinks it's right to protect a company, it's employers and the associated industries. I note Rolls Royce* and Airbus are supporting Virgin's request for assistance. RR is one of the three major employers locally, they're already going to be badly hit, I know one of their local tooling suppliers won't survive, that's around 40 jobs gone for a start.
This should be judged on the business case and that alone, then if assistance is given the taxpayer ought to get best value from it (It's a pity we didn't get that when we bailed the banks out, maybe we'd have more influence on what they're doing to help) Then there's the question of competition, we can't pick and choose those businesses to help based on the director, so if no help for VA then no help for any airline, anything else would soon end up in court.
I don't know what the Labour Party would do, or what i think should be done, I just feel basing it on Branson would be wrong.

*RR, who Ted Heath bailed out, though he left it very late and it would have been better and cheaper to have stepped in earlier as the opposition were calling for.


The point is Branson is wealthy enough to bail out the company himself.

DaveReading
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Re: What should the UK govt do about Branson & Virgin Atlantic?

Postby DaveReading » 21 Apr 2020, 6:43pm

Virgin Atlantic will likely get UK government support in the same way as BA almost certainly will.

The alternative would be the de facto disintegration of the UK airline industry.

PH
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Re: What should the UK govt do about Branson & Virgin Atlantic?

Postby PH » 21 Apr 2020, 7:07pm

pete75 wrote:The point is Branson is wealthy enough to bail out the company himself.

I understand that. Do you understand the way business structure work? That a limited company is in law a separate entity from it's directors. The UK government has told VA to go and raise the finance elsewhere, if they fail to do that and return it will have to be judged on the business criteria rather than the personal.
Al's case that it isn't a vital British business and should look after itself is valid, though I'd be surprised if it could legally be treated any different to another in similar circumstances. I don't particularly care if an airline goes bust, I don't fly and I think we'd all be better off with less of it. I do care how my friends at RR will cope if the orders dry up.

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Re: What should the UK govt do about Branson & Virgin Atlantic?

Postby PH » 21 Apr 2020, 7:15pm

DaveReading wrote:Virgin Atlantic will likely get UK government support in the same way as BA almost certainly will.

I think you're right, no one is talking about the wealth of BA's shareholders. IMO they will be treated the same, they'll both get help or neither will, and I can't see the later for the reason you give.

pwa
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Re: What should the UK govt do about Branson & Virgin Atlantic?

Postby pwa » 21 Apr 2020, 7:19pm

DaveReading wrote:Virgin Atlantic will likely get UK government support in the same way as BA almost certainly will.

The alternative would be the de facto disintegration of the UK airline industry.

I feel depressed at the idea of some of my taxes going to propping up VA. I don't fly, I think others should stop flying, and tax dodger Branson gives me the creeps. Do we really have to rescue him? Can't we just enjoy watching him sink?

ossie
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Re: What should the UK govt do about Branson & Virgin Atlantic?

Postby ossie » 21 Apr 2020, 7:39pm

Its not just about VA or BA though is it. Its about the thousands of jobs and businesses that are attached to these airlines.

Report on the potential impact on Crawley below. I'm slightly biased as my daughter works for BA but if they are bailed out with loans I'd like to see some decent strings attached.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/202 ... irus-crash

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Re: What should the UK govt do about Branson & Virgin Atlantic?

Postby PH » 21 Apr 2020, 7:43pm

ossie wrote:I
Report on the potential impact on Crawley below. I'm slightly biased as my daughter works for BA but if they are bailed out with loans I'd like to see some decent strings attached.

Yes, it's a point I made earlier, not so much strings, but the taxpayer getting good value for money.