Pollution,The planet,Global warming etc,documentary worth watching.....

[pliptrot]

Globally, population growth has declined during a period in which consumption has skyrocketed. It is the wealthy who pose the greatest threat to the planet. Don't blame the poor. As to measures of well-being, Cugel, I don't include consumerism or the baubles it may bring us. I include health indicators, food security and the ability of us to live without trying to slaughter each other. Some would, at this juncture, point to the Islamic world and ask how their well-being is right now. I point to the fact that 75 years ago Europe was torn apart by war. Now it is not, and I think never will be. Europe is a rather nice place to live. Certainly France and Germany, having learned the lessons of war, would never have got embroiled in the Falklands War. The USA and the UK, on the other hand, are clinging onto past glories, as we found in 1982. But things can change. 75 years is not long for a transformation of the order that Europe has enjoyed. Maybe my grandchildren (if I ever have any) will holiday in Iraq, or Libya, and get there by bicycle (because by then the working year will be 20 weeks at 2 or 3 days per week, so there will be time). It is funny that Iraq and Libya - to name just two examples of which I have a little experience, were rather nice places, and all the people I met were quite lovely, until Western hegemony tore them apart. Oh, back to the lessons of history........

[simonineaston]

It is the wealthy who pose the greatest threat to the planet. Don't blame the poor.

Constructs such blame and fault are entirely academic. All that matters are the levels of those factors that impinge on the relevant feedback systems. Notions of class, equality and education are totally irrelavent. For example, were the north Atlantic conveyer to toggle, we'd all freeze our butts off. There is simply no guarantee that Europe will continue to be "a nice place to live". If it does continue to be habitable, there is every likihood that millions will attempt to occupy that space (ring any bells??). The weather doesn't recognise the idea of humans.

[pliptrot]

Notions of class, equality and education are totally irrelavent

Really? These make the pivotal differences in our existence.

Constructs such blame and fault are entirely academic

I think the judiciary would have some trouble with that one.
Apocalyptic scenarios are the centrepoint of control structures: religion; Government; corporate systems. Our entire existence is founded on these ideas. As to your ideas about - highly unlikely- sudden and major changes in the environment, well you read too many cheap novels. When the North Atlantic conveyor drops, our society will handle it. Assuming, of course, that equality and education remain fundamental to our existence.

[Cugel]

Notions of class, equality and education are totally irrelavent

Really? These make the pivotal differences in our existence.

Constructs such blame and fault are entirely academic

I think the judiciary would have some trouble with that one.
Apocalyptic scenarios are the centrepoint of control structures: religion; Government; corporate systems. Our entire existence is founded on these ideas. As to your ideas about - highly unlikely- sudden and major changes in the environment, well you read too many cheap novels. When the North Atlantic conveyor drops, our society will handle it. Assuming, of course, that equality and education remain fundamental to our existence.

Now that's what I call optimism! "Our society will handle it"!

When? It's already going that way and has been for a couple of centuries. More to the point, "we" have known that for the last 50 years and done nowt but make it worse. Mind, there are even now many not in that "we" as they continue to deny the impending issue as well as making it worse.

Equality and education are fundamental to "our" existence, are they? (That Great Mythical Collective again). Woe and alas! "We" are therefore already undone.

Cugel, looking for a pair o' them obviously very effective rose-tinted specs.

[pliptrot]

When? It's already going that way and has been for a couple of centuries

That's the point: a couple of centuries ago we all had to dig our own potatoes. The way we live now was inconceivable. In 200 years the way the human race will live is inconceivable to us now. One thing we can be sure of - we will be less reliant on the things we worry about now. Things that keep us awake at night in 2020 will be footnotes in history books. The Netherlands, London, the fens won't exist of course, but on the plus side neither will Singapore. We may well be living in places too remote and hostile for civilization right now. Like say, Yorkshire.