receiving an income from a company dividend rather than a salary

[T-800]

I know that to be incorrect.

You think it to be incorrect.
I pay far too much tax.If I could get away with paying none I would.
You can give yourselves a warm glow by pretending you’re not the same but I don’t buy it.
“You’ll never make any money working for yourself” is sound advice I wish I’d have taken 30 odd years ago.
It’s like buying cheaper stuff from abroad and getting “gift” put on the parcel so not to pay import duty,or paying a builder/tradesman cash for a discount everyone does it.
No one is innocent.

You'd still want to use the health service, services of teh police, fire brigade or ambulance, public roads, schools if you have children etc etc. if you could get away with paying no tax. Quite happy for others to pay for them though. There's a word for people like you - leech.

Leech!?
Don’t make me laugh.
I’ve been on PAYE for most of my working life(36 years).Not counting my pension contributions I paid over £8k last year and the year before etc etc.
Hardly a leech.
Just another hard worker getting screwed.I pay FAR too much tax as do most of the working class!
That’s just me.My wife must pay similar or just under that as I would imagine she’s on a similar wage.

How much do you pay to think you have the right to judge?

I have also known people who pay income tax they could legally avoid. By choice. You can call them fools for not being as dog-eat-dog as you but for them it is making a contribution to society.

Or so they tell you.
Dog-eat-dog has nothing to do with it.It’s common sense to want to keep more of what you earn.That’s why the Bransons etc of this world are as rich as they are.

I’ve hit the 40% tax bracket a few times when really 10% would be more appropriate.

[pwa]

Dog-eat-dog has nothing to do with it.It’s common sense to want to keep more of what you earn.That’s why the Bransons etc of this world are as rich as they are.

I’ve hit the 40% tax bracket a few times when really 10% would be more appropriate.

This seems like the funniest of times to be arguing for less money for public services.

[Bonefishblues]

Dog-eat-dog has nothing to do with it.It’s common sense to want to keep more of what you earn.That’s why the Bransons etc of this world are as rich as they are.

I’ve hit the 40% tax bracket a few times when really 10% would be more appropriate.

This seems like the funniest times to be arguing for less money for public services.

I'd have thought the NHS in particular will be building up a nice little pot at the moment, given A&E are (50%), all electives are cancelled too, and there are fewer C19 admissions than was feared.

...tongue in cheek, btw, although of course when we've all forgotten about C19 to some extent* and the load comes back on, goodness knows what the NHS will face then.

*When we're no longer feeding nurses/tooting/clapping/conspicuously being seen to be supportive in some way/drawing rainbows etc etc

[merseymouth]

Hi all, We are back at the old topic - "Avoidance" or "Evasion"? Ethic & Morals aren't top of the agenda, pick your own role model for bad taste behaviour, Jimmy Carr?
Can't moan about poor service if one has taken the cr*pe route.
Choice is ours. I've used the same family opticians service for over 50 years, my choice. Only time I ever went to a budget shop for a back-up pair I found then to be rubbish in both service & bins! Can't imagine how poor things will be with them "On-Line Specs for £6 a pair" bunch?
I needed a quick bit of service yesterday, failed nose pads? Sorted in minutes, no charge, so I ordered a new pair to make his less miserable at his loss of footfall. Only too happy to do so.
So money shouldn't always be the be all and end all in life choices. TTFN MM

[pete75]

You think it to be incorrect.
I pay far too much tax.If I could get away with paying none I would.
You can give yourselves a warm glow by pretending you’re not the same but I don’t buy it.
“You’ll never make any money working for yourself” is sound advice I wish I’d have taken 30 odd years ago.
It’s like buying cheaper stuff from abroad and getting “gift” put on the parcel so not to pay import duty,or paying a builder/tradesman cash for a discount everyone does it.
No one is innocent.

You'd still want to use the health service, services of teh police, fire brigade or ambulance, public roads, schools if you have children etc etc. if you could get away with paying no tax. Quite happy for others to pay for them though. There's a word for people like you - leech.

Leech!?
Don’t make me laugh.
I’ve been on PAYE for most of my working life(36 years).Not counting my pension contributions I paid over £8k last year and the year before etc etc.
Hardly a leech.
Just another hard worker getting screwed.I pay FAR too much tax as do most of the working class!
That’s just me.My wife must pay similar or just under that as I would imagine she’s on a similar wage.

How much do you pay to think you have the right to judge?

I was made redundant and retired two years ago. Before then I paid about £1200 a month tax and NI. Now on a low income - just getting a pension from work and state pension so no NI but pay about £4200 a year tax.

The point is you said you'd pay no tax if you could get away with it yet still use public services - that is leeching.

[Richard Fairhurst]

I don't mean to seem pedantic but you use the terms self-employed and limited company together. It's a while since I ran a company, so unless it's changed in the last twenty years the two are different and exclusive.

Yep. There isn't really a good, universally understood phrase for it, unfortunately. "Personal services company" is the nearest, but no-one who doesn't do it understands what that means, and it doesn't have any status in law.

Dog-eat-dog has nothing to do with it.It’s common sense to want to keep more of what you earn.

It's also common sense that I'd like safe infrastructure for cycling; that I'd like my wife's school, and the one my son will be going to from September, to be properly funded; and so on.

That costs money. That money has to come from somewhere. Why is it that you're (presumably) happy to pay extra for a decent bike rather than an Argos BSO, but you're not happy to pay extra for decent public services? It's just a transaction like any other: the more you pay, the better you get.

[T-800]

The point is you said you'd pay no tax if you could get away with it yet still use public services - that is leeching.

I disagree.It's human nature.
You get screwed over for long enough and you're bound at some point to think sod this I'll go SE and pay no tax(or as little as possible).I wouldn't mind so much if it went where it should.
The entire PAYE system is unfair and needs a overhaul.40% tax for someone on a relatively low income is a joke.

It's also common sense that I'd like safe infrastructure for cycling; that I'd like my wife's school, and the one my son will be going to from September, to be properly funded; and so on.
That costs money. That money has to come from somewhere. Why is it that you're (presumably) happy to pay extra for a decent bike rather than an Argos BSO, but you're not happy to pay extra for decent public services? It's just a transaction like any other: the more you pay, the better you get.

That would be all fine and dandy if our taxes were going where they were meant to and the massive corporations and the like who don't pay anywhere near the percentage the working man does were made to cough up.Your last line almost made me smile as when it comes to Taxation that couldn't be further from the truth

[PH]

The entire PAYE system is unfair and needs a overhaul.40% tax for someone on a relatively low income is a joke.

I don't know anyone who considers £50,000+ a year a relatively low income. It's around twice the national average and into the top 12%. plus of course the higher rate is only paid on earnings over the threshold.
With two million workers on the minimum wage and still having to pay tax on that, complaints about what those earning three times as much pay seems selfish. I'd rather see a much higher threshold, at least min wage +10%, and a higher rate above that, then maybe a bigger gap till the next rate.
But income tax is just one way we pay, it's more realistic to compare it all, the UK isn't a high tax country.

[pete75]

The point is you said you'd pay no tax if you could get away with it yet still use public services - that is leeching.

I disagree.It's human nature.
You get screwed over for long enough and you're bound at some point to think sod this I'll go SE and pay no tax(or as little as possible).I wouldn't mind so much if it went where it should.
The entire PAYE system is unfair and needs a overhaul.40% tax for someone on a relatively low income is a joke.

It's also common sense that I'd like safe infrastructure for cycling; that I'd like my wife's school, and the one my son will be going to from September, to be properly funded; and so on.
That costs money. That money has to come from somewhere. Why is it that you're (presumably) happy to pay extra for a decent bike rather than an Argos BSO, but you're not happy to pay extra for decent public services? It's just a transaction like any other: the more you pay, the better you get.

That would be all fine and dandy if our taxes were going where they were meant to and the massive corporations and the like who don't pay anywhere near the percentage the working man does were made to cough up.Your last line almost made me smile as when it comes to Taxation that couldn't be further from the truth

It's not human nature it's your nature.

[Oldjohnw]

Paying taxes is not being screwed - at least not the relatively modest UK levels -but is yhe price you pay for being in community with your neighbours and fellow citizens. It's the price of society.

[T-800]

The entire PAYE system is unfair and needs a overhaul.40% tax for someone on a relatively low income is a joke.

I don't know anyone who considers £50,000+ a year a relatively low income. It's around twice the national average and into the top 12%. plus of course the higher rate is only paid on earnings over the threshold.
With two million workers on the minimum wage and still having to pay tax on that, complaints about what those earning three times as much pay seems selfish. I'd rather see a much higher threshold, at least min wage +10%, and a higher rate above that, then maybe a bigger gap till the next rate.
But income tax is just one way we pay, it's more realistic to compare it all, the UK isn't a high tax country.

You’re missing my point. PAYE should be fairer.
Up to £20k..2-3%
£20-30k..3-5%
£30-40k..5-7%
£40-50k...7-10%etc etc.
40% shouldn’t come into it under £200k+
I go over the threshold if I work overtime.I work overtime for two reasons.
1.I have to under our manning/holiday agreements
2.To buy stuff I want.
Why should I work my conkers off doing OT to lose almost 50% of it!?
Boils my urine.

It's not human nature i t's your nature.

And every single person I talk to about it.
Straw poll at work 10 mins ago.
10 blokes.
Pay less tax-9
Pay more tax-1
That’s all I need to know.

[PH]

You’re missing my point. PAYE should be fairer.

The only point I was making was that £50,000 isn't what the vast majority of people would consider relatively low. Did you see that bloke on Question Time before the election adamant that 80 thousand didn't put him into the top 10%? No concept of how most people live.
You don't seem to have grasped the basics of economics, in that you take a smaller amount from a larger number of people. Your simplistic wish list would devastate UK spending to below the levels of the developing world. My wish list would look something like - tax threshold £18,000, then 25% tax to £50,000 then 45%, NI increased and a better state pension.
I'm also an environmentalist, and the main way to deal with such issues is with less consumption, quite drastically less, so much so that I'd like to see all that excessive consumption taxed out of existence.

10 blokes.
Pay less tax-9
Pay more tax-1

I'm surprised that wasn't 100% or maybe it was.

[RickH]

The only point I was making was that £50,000 isn't what the vast majority of people would consider relatively low. Did you see that bloke on Question Time before the election adamant that 80 thousand didn't put him into the top 10%? No concept of how most people live.

I happened to be looking at the BBC's "Reality Check" article about that in the last few days.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/50517136

Conclusions from that were over about £25,000 puts you in the top 50% of earners & above around £81,000 puts you in the top 5%. More details in the link above.

[T-800]

You’re missing my point. PAYE should be fairer.

The only point I was making was that £50,000 isn't what the vast majority of people would consider relatively low. Did you see that bloke on Question Time before the election adamant that 80 thousand didn't put him into the top 10%? No concept of how most people live.
You don't seem to have grasped the basics of economics, in that you take a smaller amount from a larger number of people. Your simplistic wish list would devastate UK spending to below the levels of the developing world. My wish list would look something like - tax threshold £18,000, then 25% tax to £50,000 then 45%, NI increased and a better state pension.
I'm also an environmentalist, and the main way to deal with such issues is with less consumption, quite drastically less, so much so that I'd like to see all that excessive consumption taxed out of existence.

10 blokes.
Pay less tax-9
Pay more tax-1

I'm surprised that wasn't 100% or maybe it was.

The “1” is newish to the dept and a strange sort.He’s 57 so come into the job at the age when most are wanting to get out(says he wants at least 10 years).He’s Vegetarian and a bit preachy with it and donates in his words “a significant” amount of his higher wage to Charity.Thoughts from most are he should go back to his previous dept and let someone have the job who needs the money more.Weird bloke.
Again you’re missing my point.I don’t earn £50k unless I do a fair bit of OT.Then I don’t because I’m taxed heavily on anything over that.I understand economics enough to know it’s the little man being screwed.
Northern Rail were advertising jobs for drivers just before C-19.
Start salary £40K rising to £53k in year 3.For driving a train!!!?So £50k jobs are hardly rare!

[PH]

Again you’re missing my point.I don’t earn £50k unless I do a fair bit of OT.Then I don’t because I’m taxed heavily on anything over that.I understand economics enough to know it’s the little man being screwed.

I get your point, I just think it's absurd. No one even close to the higher tax bracket should be considering themselves the little man, it puts them in the top 12% of UK earners. IMO they should be paying more on the income between 20 - 50k so the real low earners, those on below 20k, don't have to carry so much of the burden.
Ask people if they think they pay too much tax, seriously, I didn't think anyone was daft enough to ask, it's like asking a kid if they want sweets. Did you ask them if they wanted a functioning NHS, or police force, or social care, or education, or the bins emptied, or roads maintained, or the thousands of other things?