Will You be using the NHS app?

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Will You be using the NHS app?

Poll ended at 26 May 2020, 11:34am

Yes
16
35%
No
21
46%
Maybe
7
15%
Don't Know
2
4%
 
Total votes: 46

merseymouth
Posts: 1778
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Re: Will You be using the NHS app?

Postby merseymouth » 5 May 2020, 6:47pm

Hello there, How effective an application will it be for folk such as myself who very rarely have their phone switched on?
The technology certainly controls me far more than I control it! I find that a propelling pencil is complex enough for me.
So I think that installing this NHS thing on my phone would be a waste of time! MM

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mjr
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Re: Will You be using the NHS app?

Postby mjr » 5 May 2020, 6:49pm

ossie wrote:There exists the ability to track every working phone in the UK. The relevant authorities use it all of the time but trust me we were never Interested in Mrs Miggins back then so why would anyone be Interested now ?

1. We don't have to trust you because there are laws restricting such tracking with severe penalties and jail time for non-compliance - laws which the NHSX app reportedly does not comply with. It's not yet clear whether it will comply (or even if it can as currently designed) or whether the emergency health powers will be used to exempt it from the previous law. Time will tell.
2. Mrs Miggins never had to carry a trackable phone to be allowed into anywhere before.
3. There was no way back then that a phone app error could instruct you to stop almost everything for weeks.
4. One of the most successful data miners of all time wasn't in Number 10 back then.

ossie wrote:People have the choice to use this app or not, let them have the choice instead of sticking in ridiculous conspiracy theories to muddy the water.

Why are you so afraid of debate?

And please remind the emotional blackmailers we should have the choice.

I wish we had the choice of one of the citizen-based apps instead of this central tracking server one.
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
All the above is CC-By-SA and no other implied copyright license to Cycle magazine.

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mjr
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Re: Will You be using the NHS app?

Postby mjr » 5 May 2020, 6:51pm

merseymouth wrote:Hello there, How effective an application will it be for folk such as myself who very rarely have their phone switched on?

Not effective. In Taiwan, the police knock on your door if your phone runs out of battery: https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-52017993
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
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reohn2
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Re: Will You be using the NHS app?

Postby reohn2 » 5 May 2020, 6:51pm

Paulatic wrote:
............I won’t because I have no trust whatsoever in this ukgov.
We’ve seen what CA are capable of I could probably only think of half the mischief Cummings can use this info for.

+1
Last edited by reohn2 on 5 May 2020, 6:53pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Paulatic
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Re: Will You be using the NHS app?

Postby Paulatic » 5 May 2020, 6:53pm

Tangled Metal wrote:The NHS app was chosen because the Google and apple version didn't have sufficient privacy controls I understand from what I've heard about the options. There's a key design decision made by those two tech giants that could give the conspiracy buffs more to stress about than the NHS app. Of course I suspect it's more about the lack of trust in the Tory party than the NHS app itself.

Not how I understand it.

Apple and Google reckon their cryptography-based protocol will make it difficult for governments and miscreants to monitor people – certainly Apple and Google will be none the wiser. Data stays on people's phones, and is only released to providers' databases when the user wants to. And they stay anonymous. To declare yourself infected, you need to enter a special code from a healthcare provider after testing positive – otherwise trolls could derail the system by falsely announcing themselves infected en masse.


The NHS app
the NHS proposes using a centralized approach, in which everyone's whereabouts and any other information is simply uploaded to a government-owned database and analyzed there.


There is an argument this centralised approach has benefits. Benefits many other EU countries have rejected.
This is one advantage

highly specific database of people, their movements and the health status, and have it populated by automated data uploads from anyone who has installed the app.

It will be a major test of how much people trust the NHS with their personal information, and how much they trust the UK government not to copy or exploit that data in future for different purposes.


It’s that last sentence do you trust this government?
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ossie
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Joined: 15 Apr 2011, 7:52pm

Re: Will You be using the NHS app?

Postby ossie » 5 May 2020, 6:55pm

mjr wrote:2. Mrs Miggins never had to carry a trackable phone to be allowed into anywhere before.


Mrs Miggins doesn't have to carry anything now or next week to get into anywhere.

Why can't you see that people have a choice.

mercalia
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Re: Will You be using the NHS app?

Postby mercalia » 5 May 2020, 7:29pm

mjr wrote:
mercalia wrote:when covid-19 is over you can always delete the app and do a phone reset to remove any residual "hanger ons"

That remains to be seen. I will not be surprised if it ingrains itself in the firmware at least as deeply as some of those preloaded games and messaging apps.

mercalia wrote: I think it is all a bit late in the day? I think the only people to be afraid are those home grown islamist terrorist? I doubt they will be using the app?

Surely the deviants using Windows Phone should also be afraid. What have they got to hide? Why don't they use ordinary smartphones? Lock 'em up until covid-19 is passed - and then forget to unlock them afterwards! ;)



well a) basic Windows 4G phones are dirt cheap on Ebay for mint examples ( eg Lumia 640, about £20, must have windows 10 not 8.1 - those are just junk now) b) there are lots of useful apps in the app store as long as you dont want social media apps c) has inbuilt Here/Bing OFFLINE maps similar in type to Google covering atleast the West. TThe maps are still updated These can be stored on sd cards d) mine you can replace the battery e) The interface is great and easy to use. You can apparrantly get some thing like it for Android f) it easily interfaces with Microsoft accounts and calendar g) You have a FREE COPY of Word and Excel h) has a good camera. Downside, it stopped getting updates last summer or December - but they were every month so has been knocked on for the last 4-5 years. But some apps are still getting updates.
Last edited by mercalia on 5 May 2020, 7:46pm, edited 2 times in total.

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mjr
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Re: Will You be using the NHS app?

Postby mjr » 5 May 2020, 7:39pm

ossie wrote:
mjr wrote:2. Mrs Miggins never had to carry a trackable phone to be allowed into anywhere before.


Mrs Miggins doesn't have to carry anything now or next week to get into anywhere.

Why can't you see that people have a choice.

Maybe not next week but how about next month? Would you really bet that neither the govt nor good-intentioned fools try to "encourage" faltering usage that way?

Yes, we have a choice and it should be informed by there being no need to have the central tracker.

Why can't you see that we're being denied the best choice?
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
All the above is CC-By-SA and no other implied copyright license to Cycle magazine.

millimole
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Re: Will You be using the NHS app?

Postby millimole » 5 May 2020, 7:51pm

mercalia wrote:
when covid-19 is over you can always delete the app and do a phone reset to remove any residual "hanger ons" I think it is all a bit late in the day? I think the only people to be afraid are those home grown islamist terrorist? I doubt they will be using the app?

Apparently the clever people have discovered that, no, even if you time limit the app, and delete the data on your phone, it will remain on the central database, and the government have already admitted that the (supposedly) anonymous data can be sold on to third parties.

I don't have sufficient trust in this government to do 'the right thing' and developing this app in opposition to just about every other country reinforces that opinion.

A further danger is that if the UK continues to go it alone with this app, there may be obstacles to overseas travel where other countries want to be able have assurance of our tracking reliance which they won't have with a UK - only app.
Leicester; Riding my Hetchins since 1971; Audaxing on my Dawes; Riding to work on a Decathlon Hoprider

pwa
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Re: Will You be using the NHS app?

Postby pwa » 5 May 2020, 7:52pm

ossie wrote:There exists the ability to track every working phone in the UK. The relevant authorities use it all of the time but trust me we were never Interested in Mrs Miggins back then so why would anyone be Interested now ?

People have the choice to use this app or not, let them have the choice instead of sticking in ridiculous conspiracy theories to muddy the water.

I think some here have an exaggerated view of how interested the UK Government is, or will ever be, in their mundane visits to Lidl. If anyone ever wants to track my every move they will be welcome, but they better have a high boredom threshold.

pwa
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Re: Will You be using the NHS app?

Postby pwa » 5 May 2020, 7:56pm

millimole wrote:
mercalia wrote:
when covid-19 is over you can always delete the app and do a phone reset to remove any residual "hanger ons" I think it is all a bit late in the day? I think the only people to be afraid are those home grown islamist terrorist? I doubt they will be using the app?

Apparently the clever people have discovered that, no, even if you time limit the app, and delete the data on your phone, it will remain on the central database, and the government have already admitted that the (supposedly) anonymous data can be sold on to third parties.

I don't have sufficient trust in this government to do 'the right thing' and developing this app in opposition to just about every other country reinforces that opinion.

A further danger is that if the UK continues to go it alone with this app, there may be obstacles to overseas travel where other countries want to be able have assurance of our tracking reliance which they won't have with a UK - only app.

So you won't be installing an app that might alert someone you have passed the virus on to so that they can avoid passing it on to someone else? When people say we are all in this together, they are wrong.

If you are so paranoid, buy a cheap phone just to take the app.
Last edited by pwa on 5 May 2020, 7:58pm, edited 1 time in total.

Mike Sales
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Re: Will You be using the NHS app?

Postby Mike Sales » 5 May 2020, 7:57pm

What is the position with those who have no mobile phone, and don't intend to get one?

pwa
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Re: Will You be using the NHS app?

Postby pwa » 5 May 2020, 8:00pm

Mike Sales wrote:What is the position with those who have no mobile phone, and don't intend to get one?

For them there will have to be an army of people to trace their contacts, so far as they can remember them. Making lots of phone calls and so forth.

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Paulatic
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Re: Will You be using the NHS app?

Postby Paulatic » 5 May 2020, 8:49pm

pwa wrote:If you are so paranoid, buy a cheap phone just to take the app.


It’s irrelevant how much your phone costs the government will have your data They are going to keep it for six months and what you think of as a boring life is full of useful information which the devious can compute to their advantage. The app has been developed by the same friends of Cummings who once worked for Cambridge Analytica. Not put out to tender just handed out which I haven’t seen denied.
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Mike Sales
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Re: Will You be using the NHS app?

Postby Mike Sales » 5 May 2020, 8:51pm

pwa wrote:
Mike Sales wrote:What is the position with those who have no mobile phone, and don't intend to get one?

For them there will have to be an army of people to trace their contacts, so far as they can remember them. Making lots of phone calls and so forth.


Harassment you mean?