Sudden influx of new/returning cyclists

[merseymouth]

Hi Igurney , Your list of stupidity is spot on! Quite why people who would object strongly to being endangered by others don't see the sin when the boot is on the other foot? On par with the clowns who ride their fixie with no brakes, yet make a pose towards safety by wearing a plastic brain bucket???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
I want to live in safety, but also I wish to live my life not posing a risk to others. Pax MM

[jgurney]

With the exception of day rides where I can fit everything into rear pockets, I've only ever ridden with my kit in bicycle mounted bags, be they bar, rackpack or panniers. The reason being that if the weight is on the bike, it is far more comfortable and makes negligible difference to handling. This is my opinion, based on many years, and many thousands of miles, riding with kit.

At risk of thread drift, that matches my own experience.

[jgurney]

- 4 cyclists going the wrong way down one-way streets
- 3 cyclists riding on the right in two-way streets
- 4 cases of adults cycling on the grass in a park with tarmac paths
- too many adult pavement-peddlers to count (although many seemed to have young children riding with them).
- 3 cases of cyclists disobeying red lights

I also observed:
- numerous cases of pedestrians walking on the left on roads without footways
- several cases of illegal car parking, mainly too close to junctions.
- 2 cases of motorcyclists disobeying red lights
- 1 car passing me with insufficient clearance, on a wide road with plenty of space available
- 1 motorcyclist approaching a junction in the left-turn only lane, then carrying straight on and cutting close inside of a cyclist going straight on from the correct lane.

Hi Igurney , Your list of stupidity is spot on! Quite why people who would object strongly to being endangered by others don't see the sin when the boot is on the other foot? On par with the clowns who ride their fixie with no brakes, yet make a pose towards safety by wearing a plastic brain bucket? I want to live in safety, but also I wish to live my life not posing a risk to others....

I suppose it was only the last two, the close passing car and the motorcyclist cutting in on a cyclist's inside, that posed a significant hazard.
The 3 cyclists and many pedestrians on the wrong side of the road, and the illegal parking, were more of a nusiance, but potentally hazards. I suspect the twits riding the wrong way down one way streets would have tucked themselves out of the way if a car had appeared. The people riding bikes on the grass were no hazard to anyone but could cause rutting and erosion, and it just looks so silly. In a lot of the cases my main reaction was annoyance at seeing bicycles being treated as if they were toys, not taken seriously as vehicles.

[mjr]

Hi, With an increased occurrence of idiots on bikes insisting on riding on pavements! Why?

The most likely reasons are:
1. they don't know any better, having never learned to ride legally - one solution is more councils to subsidise adult Bikeability and more providers to find more ways to get people to take it;
2. riding on the pavement feels better than riding on the carriageway to them - sometimes safer, sometimes just more chilled out - one possible solution is to make the road feel safer, whether that's by banning the motorists from more space, by lowering their speeds or by filtering some of them out.

Now, 1 is ignorance, but how is 2 stupidity?

But as someone who is a dedicated cyclist I have no right to steal the safe space provided for pedestrians, which is more than a theoretical risk to my person.

It's only a theoretical risk to pedestrians on many busy A and B roads because there are no walkers there any more, and I suspect that's more the fault of pavement motorists than pavement cyclists.

[jgurney]

Hi, With an increased occurrence of idiots on bikes insisting on riding on pavements! Why?

The most likely reasons are:
1. they don't know any better, having never learned to ride legally - one solution is more councils to subsidise adult Bikeability and more providers to find more ways to get people to take it;
2. riding on the pavement feels better than riding on the carriageway to them - sometimes safer, sometimes just more chilled out - one possible solution is to make the road feel safer, whether that's by banning the motorists from more space, by lowering their speeds or by filtering some of them out.

Agreed, but add:
3. They believe motorists have a prior right to the road and that they should ride on the pavement to avoid inconveniencing drivers (the "I feel guilty slowing down cars" approach).
4. They feel that riding on the carriageway is being a goody-goody and riding on the pavement is being a bold rebel. (Some friends had a huge ongoing row with their teenage son over this: he insisted on riding on pavements even if there wasn't a car in sight and refused to have any lights on his bike, taking them off when his father fitted them, because, he said, "my friends would laugh at me". It ended with his bike confiscated and sold).

It's only a theoretical risk to pedestrians on many busy A and B roads because there are no walkers there any more, and I suspect that's more the fault of pavement motorists than pavement cyclists.

Most urban A and B roads I use have a lot of pedestrian traffic. Rural ones with footways don't, but neither do the nearby side roads: I suspect that is more due to reluctance to walk long distances (except recreational walkers, who tend to avoid roads).

[mjr]

3. They believe motorists have a prior right to the road and that they should ride on the pavement to avoid inconveniencing drivers (the "I feel guilty slowing down cars" approach).

Is that a guess or have you really met some of those?

It's only a theoretical risk to pedestrians on many busy A and B roads because there are no walkers there any more, and I suspect that's more the fault of pavement motorists than pavement cyclists.

Most urban A and B roads I use have a lot of pedestrian traffic. Rural ones with footways don't, but neither do the nearby side roads: I suspect that is more due to reluctance to walk long distances (except recreational walkers, who tend to avoid roads).

Well I'm by a rural A road even though I don't live a long distance out of town (3 miles to the edge, 5 to the centre), but people here seem to prefer to walk two sides of a triangle or three sides of a rectangle, or use grass tracks across the common to connect to industrial estate roads, rather than walk by the busy road - much as some routing authorities expect cyclists to do to follow marked routes!

Happily this bit of A10 has a half-decent cycleway (but not perfect) so I have an option between stubbornly slowing motorists and riding on grass.

[jgurney]

3. They believe motorists have a prior right to the road and that they should ride on the pavement to avoid inconveniencing drivers (the "I feel guilty slowing down cars" approach).

Is that a guess or have you really met some of those?

I have. I have no way of knowing how representative they are.

[merseymouth]

Hi all, One very salient point - The comment that many believe the motorists have a superior right to use the roads?
Yes, prevalent because of ignorance, sadly even among the folk responsible for safety on our roads - The Police!
So let us correct that fallacy, Motor Traffic in all classes have no legal right to use the highways, they do so by Conditional Licence, hence the need for National Tests. Then upon being deemed safe enough to be issued with a licence they are obliged to follow all of the various traffic regulation,s parts of which oblige the to "Drive/Ride with due care and consideration for all other road users".
Cyclists have a "Legal Right" to use the roads, with a few exceptions, but still have the mutual responsibility to "Ride With Due Care and Consideration for Other Road Users"!
If only cars were as dangerous for the occupants as they used to be? If the driver was sure to die in a collision then it might focus their mind onto avoiding hitting anyone or anything!!!! Instead of a air bag maybe a bayonet out of the steering wheel centre would bring about safer roads? MM

[reohn2]

With the exception of day rides where I can fit everything into rear pockets, I've only ever ridden with my kit in bicycle mounted bags, be they bar, rackpack or panniers. The reason being that if the weight is on the bike, it is far more comfortable and makes negligible difference to handling. This is my opinion, based on many years, and many thousands of miles, riding with kit.

At risk of thread drift, that matches my own experience.

And mine.

[reohn2]

Hi all, One very salient point - The comment that many believe the motorists have a superior right to use the roads?
Yes, prevalent because of ignorance, sadly even among the folk responsible for safety on our roads - The Police!
So let us correct that fallacy, Motor Traffic in all classes have no legal right to use the highways, they do so by Conditional Licence, hence the need for National Tests. Then upon being deemed safe enough to be issued with a licence they are obliged to follow all of the various traffic regulation,s parts of which oblige the to "Drive/Ride with due care and consideration for all other road users".
Cyclists have a "Legal Right" to use the roads, with a few exceptions, but still have the mutual responsibility to "Ride With Due Care and Consideration for Other Road Users"!
If only cars were as dangerous for the occupants as they used to be? If the driver was sure to die in a collision then it might focus their mind onto avoiding hitting anyone or anything!!!! Instead of a air bag maybe a bayonet out of the steering wheel centre would bring about safer roads? MM

Maybe a police force with enough manpower and willingness to enforce the law could go a long way to solving the problem.

[francovendee]

With the exception of a heavy tourer, which was designed with luggage attachments aforethought, used for a tour where I needed a hundred weight of kit, I’ve only ever ridden with my kit in a rucksack on my back. The reason being that if the weight is on the bike, it’s dead weight, it screws the handling up, and makes things more unpredictable than they need to be. As long as you don’t put lots of heavy stuff ( to the point you’d have issues lifting the bag) into a rucksack, it’s worth taking the small inconvenience of a bit of a sweaty back, to have dynamic control of the weight distribution.

With the exception of day rides where I can fit everything into rear pockets, I've only ever ridden with my kit in bicycle mounted bags, be they bar, rackpack or panniers. The reason being that if the weight is on the bike, it is far more comfortable and makes negligible difference to handling. This is my opinion, based on many years, and many thousands of miles, riding with kit.

+1 When I first bought a set of panniers it was an impulse purchase. They were on offer and I already had a rack. It made my cycling a lot more enjoyable. Previously I'd used a rucksack and kept tools, pump, tube plus anything else needed for a day or two away.
You realise the weight on your shoulder high up on the bike isn't good for handling when you start using panniers.

[rmurphy195]

It is great to have a lot more cyclists on the road. Especially the family groups and couples.

I sincerely hope this continues despite the sudden resurgence of traffic volumes : exhaust fumes : noise and the increased perception of danger.
Time will tell.

Spot on, but I think we need more cycle training courses. (BTW "experienced" group riders need to set a better example. one lot was completely blocking the road to Copt Green this morningwhere it crosses the A34 this morning, ideally placed to get creamed by any vehicle turing left! They had to get out of the way as I approached the junction from the other direction, they were that spread out.)

[djnotts]

I suspect coincidence of unusually good weather and the covid restrictions a major cause. I have cycled for over 80 days consecutively .... number of riders seem to have kept increasing until this last weekend. Rain and wind gave me empty roads and tracks/canal paths.
Drier and less windy today, saw many roadies!
Amusingly, when I am on carbon race replica those on similar acknowledge my presence (despite my slowness), not so today on my Brompton!
I don't think the fad will last, altho the number of utility cyclists may well increase slightly.

[atoz]

The current situation is bringing a lot of new / returning cyclists back to the roads. This is a good thing. The cynic in me can’t help but think their numbers will diminish, as soon as the current restrictions ease off though. The eternal optimist in me hopes that this is the start of a sea change in the generally rubbish attitudes towards cyclists in the U.K.

I think this will only last so long. Once a lot of people go back to work, and find that their journey is not possible by public transport due to social distancing limiting capacity, and is not practical by bike on a regular basis (my work journey falls into that category, but I don't drive so buses are what I have to do), they will revert to cars, as most people of working age in this country have a driving licence. I know there are some on this forum who think lots of people can't afford a car. i'm afraid the reality is that if your journey is significantly over the travel to work distance, and is dangerous due to traffic, and takes longer by bike, you will find the money for a very used vehicle. I used to work and live many years ago in St Albans, and you wouldn't believe the crocks that people were driving around- the terrain has a shortage of hills and public transport is pricey, so people drive around stuff held together with rust that in my area would never make the vertical hills up to my home village. Yes it's expensive running a car. So is not being able to work because you didn't have a car to make the journey. The short journey distances often quoted in my view are a lot to do with the school run, and not necessarily work journeys. The 3 km distance Boardman quotes for most journeys in Manchester is actually just in the inner city, but of lot of people who work in Manchester actually live miles out of town eg Glossop, Oldham, Bury etc- places not known for being flat.

Once the motorists clutter up the roads again (and there will be more) it will not be pleasant cycling to work. Quite a few of the new cyclists will not have the experience some of us will have with busy traffic and motorists with little patience.

Sorry to be a killjoy, but honesty is the best policy. If you make public transport a non-starter you will force people to drive. Not all people have short distances to work. In education many people work on short contracts, which means they won't move to a new job, but commute further from their existing home to it. Some of these commutes are horrendous- I know someone who does Stockport to Huddersfield, normally by train. She will probably now have to drive now- not good- for a teaching job in post 16 education, which is an area with a lot of short contracts and agency work. The students have often the same problems if they are doing a HE course, as grants are now a thing of the past, so they increasingly live at home and put up with horrendous commutes to early morning classes. Even if they were able to cycle in, where's the secure cycle parking? Often non-existent. The vision of undergrad students floating through Oxbridge are precisely that- visions, that have more in common with episodes of Morse than cycling in say Leeds, Birmingham, Bradford, Huddersfield etc etc. A middle class fantasy world.

[Trigger]

FWIW I have no problem with people riding on the pavement, so long as it is just the weaving bimblers who can't cycle in a straight line that would be a dangerous hazard if riding in the carriageway. Anyone attempting any sort of performance/fitness cycling on the pavement needs their head boxing though, not only is it dangerous to others but a total waste of time due to all the drop kerbs, debris, dogs, zombies with earphones in etc.

I'd much rather new cyclists who aren't confident enough to ride on the road, rode on the pavement, or at lease maybe find some tracks/paths they can use if they don't intend building up to road riding.

To be fair around my way the only ones I see on pavements are families with small kids or an adult couple doing about 5mph who are clearly able to stop or move over for pedestrians safely, I haven't see a single cyclist on the pavement giving it the beans.