Pre-owned costing more than new.

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Syd
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Pre-owned costing more than new.

Postby Syd » 12 Jun 2020, 8:53pm

A few years ago I was in the market to buy the watch of my childhood desires only to find significant waiting lists for new resulting in pre-owned prices to be higher than new retail price by some margin.

Thankfully, after a lot of perseverance I got one from an authorised dealer at list price.

Are there any equivalent situations in the cycling world?

Bonefishblues
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Re: Pre-owned costing more than new.

Postby Bonefishblues » 12 Jun 2020, 8:59pm

Daytona?

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Syd
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Re: Pre-owned costing more than new.

Postby Syd » 12 Jun 2020, 9:11pm

Bonefishblues wrote:Daytona?

Nope, that to me is the worst looking Rolex on sale today.

PH
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Re: Pre-owned costing more than new.

Postby PH » 12 Jun 2020, 9:19pm

A few years ago I sold a seven year old Airnimal for more than it cost new, though the prices had shot up in the meantime.
I've been watching Rohloffs on Ebay, the new prices are coming down while the secondhand ones are selling for more, if it continues, the prices will converge before long. I'm confident that if I was selling, I could get within £100 of what my Rohloff cost seventeen years ago, though it did have £180 worth of upgrades a couple of years ago,

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Syd
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Re: Pre-owned costing more than new.

Postby Syd » 12 Jun 2020, 9:31pm

Are those prices corrected for inflation @PH?

Its one thing that annoys me in programmes such an Antique Roadshow where they claim someone did well buying something for £xx 20 years ago and it’s now worth a tenner more.

pete75
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Re: Pre-owned costing more than new.

Postby pete75 » 16 Jun 2020, 8:47am

Can't think of anything cycling related. I'm assuming you mean things available new but selling secondhand for more than the current new price.

Oldjohnw
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Re: Pre-owned costing more than new.

Postby Oldjohnw » 16 Jun 2020, 9:40am

If I'd hung on to my dad's Morris Minor, Hillman Minx, Austin A30, A35 and A45............
John

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Syd
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Re: Pre-owned costing more than new.

Postby Syd » 16 Jun 2020, 2:39pm

pete75 wrote:Can't think of anything cycling related. I'm assuming you mean things available new but selling secondhand for more than the current new price.

Exactly that.

jgurney
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Re: Pre-owned costing more than new.

Postby jgurney » 16 Jun 2020, 3:33pm

Syd wrote:
pete75 wrote:Can't think of anything cycling related. I'm assuming you mean things available new but selling secondhand for more than the current new price.

Exactly that.

Since VAT applies to many new goods but not to any used ones, used goods selling for more than available new equivalents would only happen in either VAT-free goods or in very odd situations.

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Syd
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Re: Pre-owned costing more than new.

Postby Syd » 16 Jun 2020, 5:21pm

jgurney wrote:
Syd wrote:
pete75 wrote:Can't think of anything cycling related. I'm assuming you mean things available new but selling secondhand for more than the current new price.

Exactly that.

Since VAT applies to many new goods but not to any used ones, used goods selling for more than available new equivalents would only happen in either VAT-free goods or in very odd situations.


Certainly not the case on rare or hard to get items For example some high end cars.

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[XAP]Bob
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Re: Pre-owned costing more than new.

Postby [XAP]Bob » 16 Jun 2020, 5:36pm

Syd wrote:Are those prices corrected for inflation @PH?

Its one thing that annoys me in programmes such an Antique Roadshow where they claim someone did well buying something for £xx 20 years ago and it’s now worth a tenner more.

Depends what value they have had from it in the meantime.
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Re: Pre-owned costing more than new.

Postby kwackers » 16 Jun 2020, 5:48pm

jgurney wrote:Since VAT applies to many new goods but not to any used ones, used goods selling for more than available new equivalents would only happen in either VAT-free goods or in very odd situations.

'Stuff' costs what it costs.
If I was buying something that had a ticket price of £400 and somebody wanted £320 for it I wouldn't think "hmm, but that's only £13 less than the ex-VAT new cost".
Unless you're VAT registered it costs you £400 for a new one and that's the price you consider.

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Re: Pre-owned costing more than new.

Postby jgurney » 16 Jun 2020, 6:17pm

kwackers wrote:
jgurney wrote:Since VAT applies to many new goods but not to any used ones, used goods selling for more than available new equivalents would only happen in either VAT-free goods or in very odd situations.

'Stuff' costs what it costs. If I was buying something that had a ticket price of £400 and somebody wanted £320 for it I wouldn't think "hmm, but that's only £13 less than the ex-VAT new cost". Unless you're VAT registered it costs you £400 for a new one and that's the price you consider.

Precisely, the buyer will only be interested in the price inc VAT. For the price of the second hand version (which does not include VAT) to rise above that of the new (when it does include VAT) would mean that in pre-VAT price terms, the used item is really priced a long way above the new. A new item on sale at £400 was £330 before VAT was added. If the used version is selling (VAT-free) for £410, that means in pre-VAT terms the used version costs 24% more than the new one. That will only arise in very odd situations. Among other things, if there are people willing to pay £410 for the used item, presumably it would occur to the seller of the new items currently priced at £400 that they can put their price up further. (All this assumes the used and new are identical in all respects except the new one being new e.g. both are available with the same wait, as opposed to the used one being available immediately but the new one having to be ordered in advance for delivery in six months, with the delay acting as a constraint upon the price).

pete75
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Re: Pre-owned costing more than new.

Postby pete75 » 16 Jun 2020, 6:51pm

jgurney wrote:
Syd wrote:
pete75 wrote:Can't think of anything cycling related. I'm assuming you mean things available new but selling secondhand for more than the current new price.

Exactly that.

Since VAT applies to many new goods but not to any used ones, used goods selling for more than available new equivalents would only happen in either VAT-free goods or in very odd situations.


When a VAT registered business is selling second hand goods VAT applies.

jgurney
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Re: Pre-owned costing more than new.

Postby jgurney » 16 Jun 2020, 7:06pm

When a VAT registered business is selling second hand goods VAT applies.

Just checked. So it does, although at a reduced rate. I'm behind the times, and obliged to you for the info. (However the margin scheme makes the effect on post-VAT prices much lower. In an example at https://www.gov.uk/vat-margin-schemes the VAT on a second hand item priced at £2000 works out at £83.33 rather than the £400 that would be applied to a new item priced £2000 ex-VAT).