Pre-owned costing more than new.

Use this board for general non-cycling-related chat, or to introduce yourself to the forum.
User avatar
Syd
Posts: 497
Joined: 23 Sep 2018, 2:27pm

Re: Pre-owned costing more than new.

Postby Syd » 16 Jun 2020, 7:16pm

Lets take a couple of examples from the watch industry.

The Rolex Oyster Perpetual 39 (one of the easiest watches to buy from their range). Has a list price of £4,500. Prices for one purchased new in 2019 are £5,000.

Their Explorer II has a list price of £6,650. A 2019 one will set you back £8,000 plus.

That’s from a company that make an estimated 1,000,000 watches a year but demand still outstrips production.

The price gaps on their, ‘Hulk’, ‘Pespi’ and Daytona models are even wider.

I’m sure there must be rare, potentially one off, bikes that will be in the same position.

photobike
Posts: 31
Joined: 7 Nov 2014, 5:51pm

Re: Pre-owned costing more than new.

Postby photobike » 16 Jun 2020, 8:38pm

The examples I have seen have usually been either rarity or where there is a waiting list for the new item and the 2nd hand price reflects the fact that people dont want to wait. Examples would include the classic Chelsea Tractor the Volvo XC90 which on release was in such demand that the used price was higher than new for a while. I also seem to remember that Morgan cars (John Harvey-Jones made a programme about them in his Trouble shooter series) had a situation where places on the (10 year+) waiting list changed hands for a significant amount of money, none of which went to the company. This amounts to the same thing as 2nd hand being more than new.

I suspect in bicycles that you might find a secondary market in something like Bromptons, particularly the rarer/special edition ones and possibly Moulton where there was a huge price increase some years ago probably reflecting a secondary market of higher than new values.

Cyril Haearn
Posts: 13573
Joined: 30 Nov 2013, 11:26am
Location: Leafy suburbia

Re: Pre-owned costing more than new.

Postby Cyril Haearn » 16 Jun 2020, 9:58pm

Bad business, r***x should raise the prices, why do they not do so?

What does 'easy to buy' mean?
Entertainer, intellectual, idealist, PoB, 60097
Cycling-of course, but it is far better on a Gillott
We love safety cameras, we hate bullies

User avatar
Syd
Posts: 497
Joined: 23 Sep 2018, 2:27pm

Pre-owned costing more than new.

Postby Syd » 16 Jun 2020, 10:16pm

Cyril Haearn wrote:What does 'easy to buy' mean?

Means there’s a good chance you can walk into a Rolex dealership, pay and walk out with one.

No waiting months or years for one.

pete75
Posts: 13054
Joined: 24 Jul 2007, 2:37pm

Re: Pre-owned costing more than new.

Postby pete75 » 17 Jun 2020, 5:26pm

jgurney wrote:
When a VAT registered business is selling second hand goods VAT applies.

Just checked. So it does, although at a reduced rate. I'm behind the times, and obliged to you for the info. (However the margin scheme makes the effect on post-VAT prices much lower. In an example at https://www.gov.uk/vat-margin-schemes the VAT on a second hand item priced at £2000 works out at £83.33 rather than the £400 that would be applied to a new item priced £2000 ex-VAT).


Unless they were charged VAT when they bought the item. Then they can't use the margin scheme.

mumbojumbo
Posts: 125
Joined: 1 Aug 2018, 8:18pm

Re: Pre-owned costing more than new.

Postby mumbojumbo » 18 Jun 2020, 9:34pm

Surely thius applies to many antique items,paintings by artists like Bacon and Freud and even some rare bikes,such as ones ridden by Wigans and Frume,winners of TDK?

jgurney
Posts: 1025
Joined: 10 May 2009, 8:34am

Re: Pre-owned costing more than new.

Postby jgurney » 19 Jun 2020, 2:06pm

mumbojumbo wrote:Surely thius applies to many antique items,paintings by artists like Bacon and Freud and even some rare bikes,such as ones ridden by Wigans and Frume,winners of TDK?


But those are not available new. Bacon and Lucian Freud are dead, a bike already ridden cannot be new. The thread was about cases where used goods cost more then the new ones of the same kind. As far as I can make out it arises only in peculiar cases of goods which actually cannot be bought new in the usual sense (of immediately taking posession), so the potential buyer actually has a choice between ordering new goods for delivery some time in the future or buying immediately available used ones.

Bonefishblues
Posts: 8027
Joined: 7 Jul 2014, 9:45pm
Location: Near Bicester Oxon

Re: Pre-owned costing more than new.

Postby Bonefishblues » 19 Jun 2020, 2:27pm

mumbojumbo wrote:Surely thius applies to many antique items,paintings by artists like Bacon and Freud and even some rare bikes,such as ones ridden by Wigans and Frume,winners of TDK?

Charlie Wigans and Freddie Frume's bikes were knackered, even when they won some old cassette tapes in the under 12s bike race, so I don't think that provenance will help boost their values :D

Manc33
Posts: 1634
Joined: 25 Apr 2015, 9:37pm

Re: Pre-owned costing more than new.

Postby Manc33 » 19 Jun 2020, 4:00pm

When two cyclists get married, they should throw anodized cable crimps instead of confetti.

mumbojumbo
Posts: 125
Joined: 1 Aug 2018, 8:18pm

Re: Pre-owned costing more than new.

Postby mumbojumbo » 20 Jun 2020, 5:23pm

In the 1930s,when I began serious cycling people bought up tubular tyres,stored in dark for several years to harden,and then sold them for more,once matured.I think the same principle suely applies to bottles of wine which are considered an investment for speculators,clothing worn by Kym Kardboardashian and other pre-owned items formerly owned by celebrities eg Corbyns allotment spade and Theresa Mays pixie boots,worn in HMs presence.

Manc33
Posts: 1634
Joined: 25 Apr 2015, 9:37pm

Re: Pre-owned costing more than new.

Postby Manc33 » 23 Jun 2020, 6:28pm

mumbojumbo wrote:In the 1930s,when I began serious cycling...


Are you over 100 years old?
When two cyclists get married, they should throw anodized cable crimps instead of confetti.

mumbojumbo
Posts: 125
Joined: 1 Aug 2018, 8:18pm

Re: Pre-owned costing more than new.

Postby mumbojumbo » 23 Jun 2020, 9:19pm

Yes-I was in the same class as Vera Lynn,and knew Clem Attlee.

mercalia
Posts: 13560
Joined: 22 Sep 2013, 10:03pm
Location: london South

Re: Pre-owned costing more than new.

Postby mercalia » 24 Jun 2020, 8:52am

Here is an example of a Sony JB980 minidisc deck on ebay for £380 or so. WHen I got mine new years ago I paid £250. But the reason I am bothering to bring this to your attention is the red letters of warning at the end of the ebay item, so scroll down for a laugh. I thought we all needed a bit of a laugh at this time of day? would you buy from this person?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SONY-MDS-JB980-MD-MINIDISC-PLAYER-RECORDER-DECK-NET-MD/184303418129?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649

merseymouth
Posts: 1785
Joined: 23 Jan 2011, 11:16am

Re: Pre-owned costing more than new.

Postby merseymouth » 24 Jun 2020, 9:28am

Morning, O to return to the days of "RPM"! The joy of going to MFI knowing there was sure to be a sale on :lol:
Remember the Victoria Wood routine? "It was (such and such a date), I know that was correct, it was when MFI didn't have a sale on"! :lol: :lol: :lol:.
As the barrack room lawyers on this Forum must surely assert "All prices displayed with goods are a starting point for negotiations". So one should always haggle!
Wouldn't touch a Rolex as a gift, waste of dosh. back in the 70's two chums of mine had to have the "Must Have" Rolex Submariner Perpetual Oyster watch? The both made money in the "Grey Economy", less murky than the black version. Both watches ground to a halt within a few months :shock: .
My £7 Sekonda kept running :D 8) .
Caveat Emptor. MM

User avatar
Syd
Posts: 497
Joined: 23 Sep 2018, 2:27pm

Re: Pre-owned costing more than new.

Postby Syd » 24 Jun 2020, 2:49pm

merseymouth wrote:Morning, O to return to the days of "RPM"! The joy of going to MFI knowing there was sure to be a sale on :lol:
Remember the Victoria Wood routine? "It was (such and such a date), I know that was correct, it was when MFI didn't have a sale on"! :lol: :lol: :lol:.
As the barrack room lawyers on this Forum must surely assert "All prices displayed with goods are a starting point for negotiations". So one should always haggle!
Wouldn't touch a Rolex as a gift, waste of dosh. back in the 70's two chums of mine had to have the "Must Have" Rolex Submariner Perpetual Oyster watch? The both made money in the "Grey Economy", less murky than the black version. Both watches ground to a halt within a few months :shock: .
My £7 Sekonda kept running :D 8) .
Caveat Emptor. MM

A 1970s model Rolex Submariner would have been the 5513 and still shift for more than RRP on a new model from an authorised dealer today.

Would be very interesting to know the abuse that would have to be applied to get two fail within a few months.

If genuine watches, and not fakes, both cases they would have been rectified back to fully working condition via the warranty.