CUK supports BLM

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Ben@Forest
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Re: CUK supports BLM

Postby Ben@Forest » 5 Jul 2020, 5:38pm

reohn2 wrote:I'm aware that some first generation ethnic people,particularly the women,don't speak English which limits their integration and is more than likely a cultural attitude toward women,but I think this is dying out as each generation passess.
What might seem like parallel lives is a preservation of their particular culture,which I have no problem with so long as it breaks no UK law.


That is an issue that is not going away quickly because parts of the Pakistani community in particular have a practice of marrying brides from 'home' so the first generation influence, and inability to speak English and integrate is always present. It is not limited to one nationality of course, l knew a Cypriot Greek whose mother spoke no English despite 20 or more years here.

reohn2
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Re: CUK supports BLM

Postby reohn2 » 5 Jul 2020, 5:45pm

Ben@Forest wrote:
reohn2 wrote:I'm aware that some first generation ethnic people,particularly the women,don't speak English which limits their integration and is more than likely a cultural attitude toward women,but I think this is dying out as each generation passess.
What might seem like parallel lives is a preservation of their particular culture,which I have no problem with so long as it breaks no UK law.


That is an issue that is not going away quickly because parts of the Pakistani community in particular have a practice of marrying brides from 'home' so the first generation influence, and inability to speak English and integrate is always present. It is not limited to one nationality of course, l knew a Cypriot Greek whose mother spoke no English despite 20 or more years here.

I don't think it's as widespread as you think,I'd need some sound evidence and stats before accepting it.
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Ben@Forest
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Re: CUK supports BLM

Postby Ben@Forest » 5 Jul 2020, 5:53pm

reohn2 wrote:
Ben@Forest wrote:
reohn2 wrote:I'm aware that some first generation ethnic people,particularly the women,don't speak English which limits their integration and is more than likely a cultural attitude toward women,but I think this is dying out as each generation passess.
What might seem like parallel lives is a preservation of their particular culture,which I have no problem with so long as it breaks no UK law.


That is an issue that is not going away quickly because parts of the Pakistani community in particular have a practice of marrying brides from 'home' so the first generation influence, and inability to speak English and integrate is always present. It is not limited to one nationality of course, l knew a Cypriot Greek whose mother spoke no English despite 20 or more years here.

I don't think it's as widespread as you think,I'd need some sound evidence and stats before accepting it.


A TV programme highlighted it a few years ago, using the term 'half a mile or half a world', meaning that people, especially women in such communities often don't travel far from where they live, except to go back 'home' occasionally. I can't refer you to the programme, but l saw it.

Oldjohnw
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Re: CUK supports BLM

Postby Oldjohnw » 5 Jul 2020, 5:57pm

Like Brits abroad don't speak French/Spanish/Arabic etc
John

reohn2
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Re: CUK supports BLM

Postby reohn2 » 5 Jul 2020, 6:01pm

Ben@Forest wrote:A TV programme highlighted it a few years ago, using the term 'half a mile or half a world', meaning that people, especially women in such communities often don't travel far from where they live, except to go back 'home' occasionally. I can't refer you to the programme, but l saw it.

I've heard the same sort of thing but it's many years ago.
Children of immigrants go to English schools and are far freer than used to be the case,I'm not saying it doesn't happen these days,but it's not anything like it used to be.
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Syd
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CUK supports BLM

Postby Syd » 5 Jul 2020, 6:07pm

I had several Pakistani colleagues whilst living and working in Manchester and had some very interesting chats with them around how females were considered.

They were telling me that there was an element of their community who was actively supportive of discouraging females to learn English as it deliberately restricted who they able to communicate with.

The topic caused great debate among two colleagues in particular who sat on either side of the argument.

Vorpal
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Re: CUK supports BLM

Postby Vorpal » 6 Jul 2020, 8:39am

There are very good reasons that divorce rates are increasing amongst British Pakistanis and Indians.

I don't think that holding such attitudes, even amongst south Asian immigrants who enter arranged marriages, is as feasible as it once was. The divorce rate is increasing in India and Pakistan, as well as in the UK. Women have more access to education, social media, and other resources.

https://www.himalmag.com/samina-leaves- ... southasia/
“In some ways, it is easier to be a dissident, for then one is without responsibility.”
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ANTONISH
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Re: CUK supports BLM

Postby ANTONISH » 6 Jul 2020, 9:43am

Ben@Forest wrote:
My point is simply statistics are often a poor indicator of other factors. It's been mentioned here before that Asians have little interest in cycling and there may be cultural reasons for that, that's not to say CUK shouldn't try to encourage it. Objectively where l live l am bound to see far fewer ethnic minorities cycling - but in terms of road cycling it is disproportionately lower than it could be (though l don't know for off-road or round-the-park riding).

I have found numbers of "asians" cycling in my locality. The largest local "asian" group happens to be Sikh. They seem to be amenable to cycling.
I've seen other BAME cyclists locally.

I suspect that the term Asian on this forum is really in respect of the Indian sub continent.
The continent of Asia would include a vast mix of different ethnic identities and religions.

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NATURAL ANKLING
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Re: CUK supports BLM

Postby NATURAL ANKLING » 6 Jul 2020, 10:31am

Hi,
reohn2 wrote:
Morzedec wrote:**ALL LIVES MATTER**

Many of us are aware of that,the BLM movement only came about because BAME people's lives matter less than white people,which is apparent to me and many,many other people around the world.

UNLESS........Unless You live next door to such a person who has a problem with drugs runs away from their problems and moved to another part of the country likes to break peoples legs and ends their careers Escape court by minutes bailed out by the team manager for an undisclosed amount of dosh.
Threats to kill bullying of your partner et cetera et cetera damage to your property et cetera et cetera.
The police come and laugh it off!?
They mention the racist word, basically they're scared stiff that they will be accused of being racist themselves so they turn it on the Victim.
All lives matter but only when treated equally.
Just because you're not white does not mean you are not bad, unfortunately might not be obvious to BAME community But even in this country are disproportionate of murders are carried out by BAME .........on BAME, that statistic is constantly swept under the carpet by the media and the police.
I'm sure if it was mentioned they've been accused of inciting riots et cetera et cetera.
You really need to live next door to someone who has attitude to Understand what it's all about.
Of course this is just my personal opinion.
have a nice day :)
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Ben@Forest
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Re: CUK supports BLM

Postby Ben@Forest » 6 Jul 2020, 10:49am

ANTONISH wrote:I suspect that the term Asian on this forum is really in respect of the Indian sub continent.
The continent of Asia would include a vast mix of different ethnic identities and religions.


Very true. I have good NZ friends who, when they say `Asians' are referring to the Chinese, Japanese and what we call 'South-East Asians'. I did allude to this distinction in an earlier post.

One Kiwi friend (who lived here for a couple of years) says 'Our Asians are not your Asians' (!)

reohn2
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Re: CUK supports BLM

Postby reohn2 » 6 Jul 2020, 10:50am

NATURAL ANKLING wrote:Hi,
reohn2 wrote:
Morzedec wrote:**ALL LIVES MATTER**

Many of us are aware of that,the BLM movement only came about because BAME people's lives matter less than white people,which is apparent to me and many,many other people around the world.

UNLESS........Unless You live next door to such a person who has a problem with drugs runs away from their problems and moved to another part of the country likes to break peoples legs and ends their careers Escape court by minutes bailed out by the team manager for an undisclosed amount of dosh.
Threats to kill bullying of your partner et cetera et cetera damage to your property et cetera et cetera.
The police come and laugh it off!?
They mention the racist word, basically they're scared stiff that they will be accused of being racist themselves so they turn it on the Victim.
All lives matter but only when treated equally.
Just because you're not white does not mean you are not bad, unfortunately might not be obvious to BAME community But even in this country are disproportionate of murders are carried out by BAME .........on BAME, that statistic is constantly swept under the carpet by the media and the police.
I'm sure if it was mentioned they've been accused of inciting riots et cetera et cetera.
You really need to live next door to someone who has attitude to Understand what it's all about.
Of course this is just my personal opinion.
have a nice day :)

No one has said all BAME people are angels and butter wouldn't melt,there's good and bad in all,that goes without saying.What you appear to be saying is that all BAME people are like the one you live(d) next door to,in the same way that some people claim all cyclists RLJ!
The point is BAME people are treated as second class citizens by the authorities which is a situation that needs addressing.
BTW I've lived in the same street a complete despot,he was white,being bad isn't confined to an particular colour or creed.

Earlier on in the thread I mentioned my closest friend,formally an actor and bank manager,now a counsellor,university mentor,linguist and musician.
He's black and has been treated appallingly by police almost daily whilst living in a predominently white area,not to mention the casual everyday racism he puts up with.

EDITed for spelling
Last edited by reohn2 on 6 Jul 2020, 3:06pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Vorpal
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Re: CUK supports BLM

Postby Vorpal » 6 Jul 2020, 1:24pm

NATURAL ANKLING wrote:Hi,
reohn2 wrote:
Morzedec wrote:**ALL LIVES MATTER**

Many of us are aware of that,the BLM movement only came about because BAME people's lives matter less than white people,which is apparent to me and many,many other people around the world.

UNLESS........Unless You live next door to such a person who has a problem with drugs runs away from their problems and moved to another part of the country likes to break peoples legs and ends their careers Escape court by minutes bailed out by the team manager for an undisclosed amount of dosh.
Threats to kill bullying of your partner et cetera et cetera damage to your property et cetera et cetera.
The police come and laugh it off!?
They mention the racist word, basically they're scared stiff that they will be accused of being racist themselves so they turn it on the Victim.
All lives matter but only when treated equally.
Just because you're not white does not mean you are not bad, unfortunately might not be obvious to BAME community But even in this country are disproportionate of murders are carried out by BAME .........on BAME, that statistic is constantly swept under the carpet by the media and the police.
I'm sure if it was mentioned they've been accused of inciting riots et cetera et cetera.
You really need to live next door to someone who has attitude to Understand what it's all about.
Of course this is just my personal opinion.
have a nice day :)

Criminals come in all colours, and offend approximately equally; when economic inequality is accounted for. That is, poor whites are just as likely to kill or assault someone as poor BAME, and vice versa. And middle class BAME are just as (un)likely to do so as middle class whites. But crime is tied to (lack of) economic opportunity, and the way to address it is as its roots.
“In some ways, it is easier to be a dissident, for then one is without responsibility.”
― Nelson Mandela, Long Walk to Freedom

Cyclewala
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Re: CUK supports BLM

Postby Cyclewala » 6 Jul 2020, 11:33pm

reohn2 wrote:
Ben@Forest wrote:
reohn2 wrote:I'm aware that some first generation ethnic people,particularly the women,don't speak English which limits their integration and is more than likely a cultural attitude toward women,but I think this is dying out as each generation passess.
What might seem like parallel lives is a preservation of their particular culture,which I have no problem with so long as it breaks no UK law.


That is an issue that is not going away quickly because parts of the Pakistani community in particular have a practice of marrying brides from 'home' so the first generation influence, and inability to speak English and integrate is always present. It is not limited to one nationality of course, l knew a Cypriot Greek whose mother spoke no English despite 20 or more years here.

I don't think it's as widespread as you think,I'd need some sound evidence and stats before accepting it.


It's becoming rarer though it still happens. The Indo Pak culture, being very paternalistic, has men making rules for the interest of men. And if you, as a woman are born and raised there, you know no different, so accept the rules.

An Asian women born and raised in the West will think and act more independent. For those men who want a subservient wife, they will get a bride from 'back home'.

Back to cycling? Well they don't ride bikes for transport as that's what poor people do. They don't ride bikes for leisure as a) it's hard and b) nobody else does it so they don't wish to stand out.

Asians partaking in sport fit into three camps a) cricket (older generation) and b) football (younger generation) and c) weightlifting (vanity reasons).

Ben@Forest
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Re: CUK supports BLM

Postby Ben@Forest » 7 Jul 2020, 7:34am

Cyclewala wrote:It's becoming rarer though it still happens. The Indo Pak culture, being very paternalistic, has men making rules for the interest of men. And if you, as a woman are born and raised there, you know no different, so accept the rules.

An Asian women born and raised in the West will think and act more independent. For those men who want a subservient wife, they will get a bride from 'back home'.


Another reason, specifically in the Pakistani community, that it happens is the very high rate of first cousin marriage, which is legal but in the general British population is less than 1%.

Below is from Wiki but you'll easily find more about this, including medical studies in Pakistan.

The debate has been prompted by a Pakistani immigrant population making up 1.5% of the British population, of whom about 50–70% marry a first cousin.

reohn2
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Re: CUK supports BLM

Postby reohn2 » 7 Jul 2020, 8:27am

Cyclewala wrote:It's becoming rarer though it still happens. The Indo Pak culture, being very paternalistic, has men making rules for the interest of men. And if you, as a woman are born and raised there, you know no different, so accept the rules.

An Asian women born and raised in the West will think and act more independent. For those men who want a subservient wife, they will get a bride from 'back home'.

As I posted up thread it still happens but not as prevelant as once was.
'Back home' is the UK for growing number of second and third generation peoples of Asian extract.
Back to cycling? Well they don't ride bikes for transport as that's what poor people do. They don't ride bikes for leisure as a) it's hard and b) nobody else does it so they don't wish to stand out.

Asians partaking in sport fit into three camps a) cricket (older generation) and b) football (younger generation) and c) weightlifting (vanity reasons).

I actually spoke with an Asian cyclist yesterday on the L&L towpath,though I do agree that's unusual.
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