CUK supports BLM

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Vorpal
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Re: CUK supports BLM

Postby Vorpal » 7 Jul 2020, 8:30am

Cyclewala wrote:
It's becoming rarer though it still happens. The Indo Pak culture, being very paternalistic, has men making rules for the interest of men. And if you, as a woman are born and raised there, you know no different, so accept the rules.


Indian and Pakistani cultures are very different, even if they have some things in common, especially from a Western perspective. Lumping them together is rather like lumping British in with the continent, and saying 'European culture', as if relationships in Italy are conducted the same way as relationships in Norway.

p.s. as for women accepting the rules, India and Pakistan both have some very strong feminist movements.
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reohn2
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Re: CUK supports BLM

Postby reohn2 » 7 Jul 2020, 9:02am

Ben@Forest wrote:
Cyclewala wrote:It's becoming rarer though it still happens. The Indo Pak culture, being very paternalistic, has men making rules for the interest of men. And if you, as a woman are born and raised there, you know no different, so accept the rules.

An Asian women born and raised in the West will think and act more independent. For those men who want a subservient wife, they will get a bride from 'back home'.


Another reason, specifically in the Pakistani community, that it happens is the very high rate of first cousin marriage, which is legal but in the general British population is less than 1%.

Below is from Wiki but you'll easily find more about this, including medical studies in Pakistan.

The debate has been prompted by a Pakistani immigrant population making up 1.5% of the British population, of whom about 50–70% marry a first cousin.

I was unaware of that.
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Cyclewala
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Re: CUK supports BLM

Postby Cyclewala » 7 Jul 2020, 9:25am

Vorpal wrote:
Cyclewala wrote:
It's becoming rarer though it still happens. The Indo Pak culture, being very paternalistic, has men making rules for the interest of men. And if you, as a woman are born and raised there, you know no different, so accept the rules.


Indian and Pakistani cultures are very different, even if they have some things in common, especially from a Western perspective. Lumping them together is rather like lumping British in with the continent, and saying 'European culture', as if relationships in Italy are conducted the same way as relationships in Norway.

p.s. as for women accepting the rules, India and Pakistan both have some very strong feminist movements.


They were one country until 70 years ago and still share common history, language, food and popular culture.

The feminist movements you allude to are in the big urban centres. Not in the rural areas where women play a secondary role to men, often willingly because that's all they know.

Cyclewala
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Re: CUK supports BLM

Postby Cyclewala » 7 Jul 2020, 9:31am

reohn2 wrote:
Ben@Forest wrote:
Cyclewala wrote:It's becoming rarer though it still happens. The Indo Pak culture, being very paternalistic, has men making rules for the interest of men. And if you, as a woman are born and raised there, you know no different, so accept the rules.

An Asian women born and raised in the West will think and act more independent. For those men who want a subservient wife, they will get a bride from 'back home'.


Another reason, specifically in the Pakistani community, that it happens is the very high rate of first cousin marriage, which is legal but in the general British population is less than 1%.

Below is from Wiki but you'll easily find more about this, including medical studies in Pakistan.

The debate has been prompted by a Pakistani immigrant population making up 1.5% of the British population, of whom about 50–70% marry a first cousin.

I was unaware of that.


Yes, Pakistanis have a greater tendency to marry first cousins. Most of this originates from the feudal system of keeping assets, usually land, within the family. Sort of protecting the family worth.

It's beginning to wane amongst generation 3 of British Pakistanis as their thinking is more in tune with mainstream Western culture.

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Morzedec
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Re: CUK supports BLM

Postby Morzedec » 7 Jul 2020, 9:55am

In Oxford and Cambridge many supposedly poor, disadvantaged, and otherwise 'Government Supported' young white males cycle quite regularly - immediately after they have pinched a bike, that is.

My earlier post that "ALL LIVES MATTER" became somewhat hijacked by the amateur psychologists on this forum, rather missing my point that we ought to respect everyone no matter what their origins. Our company employs people of many differing Nationalities, such employment based entirely on ability not ethnicity - if they are good enough, they get the job (and that is not the same thing as being 'qualified' to do it) - but we regularly get complaints from all quarters when we reject or dismiss people who are not suitable, many of whom try to play the 'race' card.

After so many years in business we have found through experience that different nationalities are better suited to differing scenarios, no matter what their colour or background: some people are naturally poor timekeepers, some leap on any excuse to take time off, some cause trouble, some waste time with argument, some prey on the opposite sex, some are naturally unkempt, and some who prove to be good workers get promotions - in the end, it's a business that has to be profitable or fail - and, having been around since 1896 (no, not me) when my Grandfather started the ball rolling, if people will not 'fit in' then they must expect to be moved on - yes, our judgement, but their own fault.

If people, of whatever background, do wrong then they must expect to be punished, be they black, white, coloured, Brummie, Cornish, or the local Bobby on the beat: we ought not to show sympathy to any wrongdoer.

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Re: CUK supports BLM

Postby roubaixtuesday » 7 Jul 2020, 10:25am

Morzedec wrote:In Oxford and Cambridge many supposedly poor, disadvantaged, and otherwise 'Government Supported' young white males cycle quite regularly - immediately after they have pinched a bike, that is.

My earlier post that "ALL LIVES MATTER" became somewhat hijacked by the amateur psychologists on this forum, rather missing my point that we ought to respect everyone no matter what their origins. Our company employs people of many differing Nationalities, such employment based entirely on ability not ethnicity - if they are good enough, they get the job (and that is not the same thing as being 'qualified' to do it) - but we regularly get complaints from all quarters when we reject or dismiss people who are not suitable, many of whom try to play the 'race' card.

After so many years in business we have found through experience that different nationalities are better suited to differing scenarios, no matter what their colour or background: some people are naturally poor timekeepers, some leap on any excuse to take time off, some cause trouble, some waste time with argument, some prey on the opposite sex, some are naturally unkempt, and some who prove to be good workers get promotions - in the end, it's a business that has to be profitable or fail - and, having been around since 1896 (no, not me) when my Grandfather started the ball rolling, if people will not 'fit in' then they must expect to be moved on - yes, our judgement, but their own fault.

If people, of whatever background, do wrong then they must expect to be punished, be they black, white, coloured, Brummie, Cornish, or the local Bobby on the beat: we ought not to show sympathy to any wrongdoer.

Happy days, sometimes.


"some prey on the opposite sex"

This reads that you believe certain nationalities are predisposed to sexual harassment?

Is that what you meant? Or something else? It's not very clear from the wording.

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NATURAL ANKLING
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Re: CUK supports BLM

Postby NATURAL ANKLING » 7 Jul 2020, 10:30am

Hi,
Vorpal wrote:
NATURAL ANKLING wrote:Hi,
reohn2 wrote:Many of us are aware of that,the BLM movement only came about because BAME people's lives matter less than white people,which is apparent to me and many,many other people around the world.

UNLESS........Unless You live next door to such a person who has a problem with drugs runs away from their problems and moved to another part of the country likes to break peoples legs and ends their careers Escape court by minutes bailed out by the team manager for an undisclosed amount of dosh.
Threats to kill bullying of your partner et cetera et cetera damage to your property et cetera et cetera.
The police come and laugh it off!?
They mention the racist word, basically they're scared stiff that they will be accused of being racist themselves so they turn it on the Victim.
All lives matter but only when treated equally.
Just because you're not white does not mean you are not bad, unfortunately might not be obvious to BAME community But even in this country are disproportionate of murders are carried out by BAME .........on BAME, that statistic is constantly swept under the carpet by the media and the police.
I'm sure if it was mentioned they've been accused of inciting riots et cetera et cetera.
You really need to live next door to someone who has attitude to Understand what it's all about.
Of course this is just my personal opinion.
have a nice day :)

Criminals come in all colours, and offend approximately equally; when economic inequality is accounted for. That is, poor whites are just as likely to kill or assault someone as poor BAME, and vice versa. And middle class BAME are just as (un)likely to do so as middle class whites[i]. But crime is tied to (lack of) economic opportunity, and the way to address it is as its roots[/i].

My bold Emphasis above.
I totally agree with this.
Unfortunately these sort of statistics Are very lacking in the media and from police and government, explaining the whole situation.
The police walk backwards and sit on their hands.
BAME tend to include the race card too often too quickly.
If they have a problem with being stopped they should and they think that that is racist they should complain straight away.
It really is not rocket science That if the police are looking for an individual who happens to be black they are more likely to stop a black person they're not gonna stop a white person are they? eg (Witnesses say they saw a black person or BAME sorry)
Tackle the inequality across the board, not just for BAME people.
some of the UK media videos shown yesterday of BAME people being stopped, ranting doesn't do you any justice, there was an example about a week ago where a similar person was stopped when this all kicked off and the police officer said in a calming way "I know you are black "instantly he was called a racist?
Now it will be easy to say he should never of said that, would the retort of been any different?
we will never know anyway.

It's my opinion that we should be educated with allthe facts, and nothing should be left out.
Also it's prudent when you're dealing with the police not to upset them or wind them up that way you've got a better chance of getting on your way a lot quicker talking from personal experience.
Like when I was stopped in the street with a air gun, or stopped For speeding, You just say yes sir yes sir and get on with it :)
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Morzedec
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Re: CUK supports BLM

Postby Morzedec » 7 Jul 2020, 11:06am

Roubaix, hello,

What I said (and thought pretty clear) was that certain people of whatever background could prove to be sexual predators.

Race does not come into any equations: we recently had to 'move on' a Turkish chap who came to us highly qualified and experienced to do the job we wanted him to do, but he (a) couldn't get up in the mornings so never arrived on time, and (b) when he was at work expected all the ladies in his department to dance attendance on his every whim. Makes no difference to us that he was Turkish, if he had come from (say) Chelsea he would still have got the push.

At around the same time we took on an Iranian man who, with little English nor experience of this country, just quietly gets on with his work and does it well. Another recent employee is a lady (I use the word specifically) of almost perfect lineage, but one who had been ditched by her 'Hooray Henry' of a husband and, never having had a 'real' job before, had on paper no skills or qualifications. However, we took a chance because she seemed so genuine, and now she is so grateful for that 'chance' it is almost an impossibility to get her to go home at the end of the working day.

Life takes all sorts; but if people work well, don't complain, and don't cause problems, then they will never have anything to worry about - perhaps sadly it is the ones who often cry 'Wolf!' who deserve everything that they get.

Happy days,

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Re: CUK supports BLM

Postby reohn2 » 7 Jul 2020, 11:56am

NA.
I've given my Black friend as and example(actually he's of mixed race but to anyone who doesn't know him ormhis background would describe him as Black African in appearance).
We're talking about a very intelligent man of good character,not given to anger,confrontation or violence,in fact he'd run a mile to avoid it.
You get the picture?
From where he lived locally it's a mile walk(which he prefers)from the train station.He's been stopped on that walk innumerable times by the police more often than not the same officers,his typical interaction would go something like:-
Police Officer "now nig nog what are you doing here",
Friend "going home"
PO "you can't be,nig nogs don't live round here"
Friend gives address and says "I can give you the phone number and you can ring my Mum she's at home"
PO "nig nogs don't live here what have you been up to"
Friend "I'm on my way home from work,I work in the TSB in Manchester Central branch I'm a finance manager there"
There would then follow more derogatory comments from the PO's before they'd drive off.
The point is they knew who he was because they'd stopped him before,so one concludes it's their idea of a bit of fun.

I've also been in a situation with him where someone has asked for directions and because he knew the area has offered advise,but the enquirer wouldn't speak to him only to me,which was the strangest racist encounter I've ever witnessed.
I can also relate many other everday racist incidents he's told me of when I've asked about the problem.

My friend learned from an early age,due to a very wise mother,how to handle racism,but many not so wise don't and react to a constant barrage of everyday systematic racism as a result things escalate.
The incident at the w/end with the two Olympians and their child is typical of what BAME people have to put up with in the UK today.
It needn't be like that and the BLM movement is hilighting the problem which is huge and constant.

You and me are BAME so we can only view it from the outside looking in and not and never will be able to see it first hand other than the odd incident we may witness occasionally,but never the constant wearing down the effect racism has on BAME people in everyday life.
That said,I've no doubt there are those who play the race card when it suits but as I posted before there are good and bad in all,though overall the majority in any race colour or creead are good.
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Re: CUK supports BLM

Postby Cyril Haearn » 7 Jul 2020, 12:03pm

Another black man reported being stopped repeatedly by the cops

'Have you had dealings with the Constabulary?' asked Constable Sargent

'Indeed, I am a lecturer at the police college', he replied, showing his staff ID

Suddenly the Constable changed his tone completely :?
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reohn2
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Re: CUK supports BLM

Postby reohn2 » 7 Jul 2020, 12:08pm

Cyril Haearn wrote:Another black man reported being stopped repeatedly by the cops

'Have you had dealings with the Constabulary?' asked Constable Sargent

'Indeed, I am a lecturer at the police college', he replied, showing his staff ID

Suddenly the Constable changed his tone completely :?

Is this a true story or apocryphal?
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Cyril Haearn
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Re: CUK supports BLM

Postby Cyril Haearn » 7 Jul 2020, 12:11pm

reohn2 wrote:
Cyril Haearn wrote:Another black man reported being stopped repeatedly by the cops

'Have you had dealings with the Constabulary?' asked Constable Sargent

'Indeed, I am a lecturer at the police college', he replied, showing his staff ID

Suddenly the Constable changed his tone completely :?

Is this a true story or apocryphal?

True, just checked the story dated 20.6.20
Burak Yilmaz is his name, he lectured at the police college in Duisburg
The article reports that cops in the US get 16 weeks training, in Germany cops get three years at least
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Re: CUK supports BLM

Postby Vorpal » 7 Jul 2020, 12:56pm

Cyclewala wrote:
They were one country until 70 years ago and still share common history, language, food and popular culture.

The feminist movements you allude to are in the big urban centres. Not in the rural areas where women play a secondary role to men, often willingly because that's all they know.

I am aware of the the history of India and Pakistan. As for language, some are common, especially in border regions, but English is the only language common across both countries, and even that varies somewhat. Food varies regionally. It is as different between Mumbai and the Himalayas as between England and Spain, even before Pakistan is included. Popular culture is different, as well. Most Pakistani music and film is in Urdu and Punjabi, while Indian is mostly in Hindi, though there is plenty of music in Bengali, Tamil, Telugu, Marathi, and other languages. While Pakistan imports many Bollywood films, in popular culture, like cricket, there is actually a quite strong rivalry.

Feminism is perhaps a generation behind in rural areas compared to urban, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

And the divide is less urban / rural than it is economic. Indian women with the means to do so are normally well educated, those without economic means have fewer options. Poor women who escape abusive marriages often feel forced to remarry for the sake of economic stability. The other alternative, returning to their parents is ofen economically unviable. It's not so different than it was in Western countries a couple of generations ago.
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NATURAL ANKLING
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Re: CUK supports BLM

Postby NATURAL ANKLING » 7 Jul 2020, 5:13pm

Hi,
R2, I understand everything you have said and agree with you that your friend is obviously being singled out and treated badly.
Like Vorpal says we have to go back to the root of the problem, a part maybe even a small part of the problem to me appears to be the cultural background.
Apart from the Southwest Devon and Cornwall only I think a part of Wales has less BAME population, IIRC.
so I'm not seeing the same sort of problems that more populated parts of the country are.
In all my years I have only probably spoken to a few dozen BAME people, They are incredibly thin on the ground where I live.
When I was in intensive care for two sidekicks of the consultant were both Asian, so I have them to thank for me still being here.
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You'll Still Find Me At The Top Of A Hill
Please forgive the poor Grammar I blame it on my mobile and phat thinkers.

reohn2
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Re: CUK supports BLM

Postby reohn2 » 7 Jul 2020, 5:23pm

Cyril Haearn wrote:
reohn2 wrote:
Cyril Haearn wrote:Another black man reported being stopped repeatedly by the cops

'Have you had dealings with the Constabulary?' asked Constable Sargent

'Indeed, I am a lecturer at the police college', he replied, showing his staff ID

Suddenly the Constable changed his tone completely :?

Is this a true story or apocryphal?

True, just checked the story dated 20.6.20
Burak Yilmaz is his name, he lectured at the police college in Duisburg
The article reports that cops in the US get 16 weeks training, in Germany cops get three years at least

OK ,thanks for checking.
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