Re: CUK supports BLM
Posted: 9 Jul 2020, 7:58am
What are the numbers of overseas trained doctors and nurses who end up working in the NHS?
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Oldjohnw wrote:What are the numbers of overseas trained doctors and nurses who end up working in the NHS?
Ben@Forest wrote:reohn2 wrote:Ben@Forest wrote:.......My wife, a nurse, remembers working with a female doctor towards the end of the doctor's training. A year or so later she met the doctor again, she had left medicine and become a drugs rep. All those years (and cost) of medical training lost; because the doctor wanted to be more of a full-time mother.
But that can be said of other professions and either gender,for many different reasons.
It can, but the number of NHS doctors we train or have seems to be constantly too few. And medicine is a subject where tuition fees paid by the student do not cover the cost of the course. So a history student who drops out or graduates but never remembers the social history of Tudor England again has paid to do so, but we've lost tax money when a doctor leaves prematurely.
And the gender issue is an issue, substantially more women drop out because of motherhood; could there be better provision? Or will this always be a facet of biology that cannot be altered?
Ben@Forest wrote:reohn2 wrote:Ben@Forest wrote:.......My wife, a nurse, remembers working with a female doctor towards the end of the doctor's training. A year or so later she met the doctor again, she had left medicine and become a drugs rep. All those years (and cost) of medical training lost; because the doctor wanted to be more of a full-time mother.
But that can be said of other professions and either gender,for many different reasons.
It can, but the number of NHS doctors we train or have seems to be constantly too few. And medicine is a subject where tuition fees paid by the student do not cover the cost of the course. So a history student who drops out or graduates but never remembers the social history of Tudor England again has paid to do so, but we've lost tax money when a doctor leaves prematurely.
And the gender issue is an issue, substantially more women drop out because of motherhood; could there be better provision? Or will this always be a facet of biology that cannot be altered?
Ben@Forest wrote:America probably has unusually demanding working requirements but it's still the same in Europe where maternity leave, paid leave etc is more generous. There was a similar article to this about UK medicine not long ago.
My wife, a nurse, remembers working with a female doctor towards the end of the doctor's training. A year or so later she met the doctor again, she had left medicine and become a drugs rep. All those years (and cost) of medical training lost; because the doctor wanted to be more of a full-time mother.
roubaixtuesday wrote:There are radically different proportions of female doctors in different countries.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl ... o=0.657895
Whatever the reasons, this clearly cannot be explained by a simple biological imperative.
Ben@Forest wrote:roubaixtuesday wrote:There are radically different proportions of female doctors in different countries.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl ... o=0.657895
Whatever the reasons, this clearly cannot be explained by a simple biological imperative.
Interesting article (or rather research). One of the stats is that in Scandinavia where there's considerable shared parental paid leave overall women take the significant majority of it (79%).
I think that childcare provision can be made better nearly everywhere but that doesn't cover a desire for a mother to look after her own child. It would be interesting to know if there are UK stats for women who are committed to their career, intend to come back to work after pregnancy and don't, l can remember at least two in my working life. I've never yet met a man who stopped work to become the primary child carer.
robing wrote:So Cycling UK have just done a statement on Black Lives Matter.
https://www.cyclinguk.org/news/black-li ... cycling-uk
They also posted this on Facebook which caused a storm, but I thought I would open it up here as many aren't on Facebook.
Why did they need to make a statement on the death of George Floyd? It has nothing to do with cycling in the UK.
Now I'm all for encouraging all minorities to get in to cycling, and fully support CUK in this. But in declaring support for BLM they have crossed a line and made it political, particularly in view of the violence against police last weekend and damage and defacing of war memorials. Clearly CUK under its new leadership has a political agenda. I am cancelling my membership forthwith and urge others to do so too if you feel the same way. This could do CUK a lot of damage.
The statement 'Black Lives Matter' is, by definition racist.
roubaixtuesday wrote:The statement 'Black Lives Matter' is, by definition racist.
Let's be honest, this not an honest attempt to have a constructive dialogue.
Nobody involved in the Black Lives Matter movement is saying that only black lives matter, or that all lives don't matter, or that white lives don't matter.
Shaka Hislop, Show Racism The Red Card
"The movement of Black Lives Matter was established in reaction to the murder by police officers of black people in the USA in much higher numbers than white people," Ged Grebby told Newsround. He is the chief executive of the charity Show Racism The Red Card. "It is a movement for equality and against racism."
Some people have been using the phrase 'All Lives Matter' in response to the Black Lives Matter movement.
On the surface, it seems to suggest that people should be united. However, it's still viewed by many campaigners as a problematic statement. This is because it's seen to take away from the important issues that are affecting black lives in a bad way, and which need to be addressed.
"Nobody involved in the Black Lives Matter movement is saying that only black lives matter, or that all lives don't matter, or that white lives don't matter. The issue is that is white lives have always seemed to matter more," Shaka Hislop explained.
"What Black Lives Matter as a movement is saying is that all those lives matter equally. Black lives have to matter just as much as everybody else's."
Rouleur126 wrote:roubaixtuesday wrote:The statement 'Black Lives Matter' is, by definition racist.
Let's be honest, this not an honest attempt to have a constructive dialogue.
Actually it is.
Racism, in any form, is not acceptable. However, favouring one group above another is discriminatory. I state again, we are all humans and should be treated as such. The BLM campaign itself is creating division and anger resulting in violence. That cannot be good. Far better if we acknowledge the failings of society as a whole rather than couched in terms of injustice to one group.
Sometimes people can't see what is in front of them unless it is spoon-fed by social media or other media. Apparently, If it is not trending on Facebook, Twitter or the like it is not true. Cycling UK, along with many others, has jumped on the bandwagon. Far better to jump on the bike. That's what I thought Cycling UK was all about.
All Lives Matter! If you wish to challenge that statement, feel free..........
'Talk sense to a fool and he calls you foolish' (Euripides)