CUK supports BLM

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jgurney
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Re: CUK supports BLM

Postby jgurney » 14 Jun 2020, 12:11am

Marcus Aurelius wrote:
jgurney wrote:
Marcus Aurelius wrote: it’s middle class ‘White’ people, banging on

So any writing or utterance by a person who is not middle class does not constitute virtue signalling?

It’s typically the case, yes.

If it is necessary to know whether, for example, a person posting here counts as being middle class or not in order to know whether their statements count as virtue signalling, that sounds difficult to do in practice. The background information needed to know the person's class (even assuming there were no doubts over defining class) would often not be available.

Tangled Metal
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Re: CUK supports BLM

Postby Tangled Metal » 14 Jun 2020, 12:23am

Virtue signalling isn't class based even colour based. It's about saying things that you think are positive or virtuous without really believing in it or without actually understanding it completely. It's about image over substance rather than class or colour. However you are more likely to get people who want to signal their sense of greater good among middle or chattering classes. Guardianistas are possibly the most likely to be guilty of this virtue signalling.

Of course I'm often accused of being right wing and we never have a single n virtuous thought in our body being money grabbing, selfish people that we are!!! :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: :lol:

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Philip Benstead
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Re: CUK supports BLM

Postby Philip Benstead » 14 Jun 2020, 6:57am

Cyril Haearn wrote:
Freddie wrote:Black Lives Matter support defunding the police though. How do CUK square the circle that they don't (tacitly) support illegal action, when BLM want the people who the enforce law and order, the police, to be no more.

Defunding the police and forming a new law and order authority, something like that happened in Eastern Europe from 1989, many policepersons were released and replaced, that is quite possible
Any society needs police, traffic police especially




You mean Police Officers
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merseymouth
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Re: CUK supports BLM

Postby merseymouth » 14 Jun 2020, 8:34am

Morning all, I've run through the postings on this thread but haven't checked the grammar & spelling!
With regards to the positions set up by CUK (Miss you CTC), but all I see is the Newspeak, chasing popular approval rating, been there, ticked the box, look good in a PR way!
Chase the Charitable Status dosh.
As I don't meet the perceived membership format, too much cycling experience, too much cycling knowledge, no desire to be trendy!
The sheer inanity of the dumbing down process which includes wrong speak! "Big Bike Week"? Well if the want an inclusive membership the should push the "Cycling" message not the bicycling message. I pointed out that very point to Chris Boardman when he launched Liverpool bie pick up scheme, what about those unable to use a fall over machine?
So not the correct stance as far as I'm concerned, little diversity. The old CTC always offered a good mix of membership, not perfectly reflective of the new box ticking mob, but only because certain people didn't think it was for them. Surely that must be their choice?

My way is always try to acknowledge a fellow cyclist, apart from them who act against the common good by using their cycle in an anti-social manner, red light, pavement cycling for example, they get an education chat!
So my advice for CUK is drop the BLM slant, emphasise the ALM message - All Lives Matter. Treat all others as you would wish to be treated.
Cut out the "Virtue Signalling" twaddle, offer cheer not dreer! MM

francovendee
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Re: CUK supports BLM

Postby francovendee » 14 Jun 2020, 9:03am

al_yrpal wrote:It was pretty obvious from the inception of CUK and the attempted disbandment of the CTC the way things were headed. Thats why I and many other CTC members jacked it in and withdrew our support. Politicisation like this vividly illustrate the way things are going. ie anywhere but actually supporting the cycle touring community.
Never mind, we know who we are and BAME folk are welcome to join us out on the road as individuals and always have been.

Al

Well said Al, couldn't agree more.

reohn2
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Re: CUK supports BLM

Postby reohn2 » 14 Jun 2020, 9:46am

Freddie wrote:Black Lives Matter support defunding the police though. How do CUK square the circle that they don't (tacitly) support illegal action, when BLM want the people who the enforce law and order, the police, to be no more.


I'd suggest that many people who voted Tory in the last election didn't support the whole of the Tory party's remit,such as the hostile environment strategy,the way it treats Muslim members,it's neoliberalist capitalist support,the con job of Universal Credit or the way it's defunded the police by cutting 20,000 of it's staff.

In the same way many people who support the principal of the BLM compaign in the UK wouldn't support all it's demands.

From conversations we've had on education it seems to me you're not to keen on equality,much preferring a heirachical society such as we have presently.
Last edited by reohn2 on 14 Jun 2020, 10:02am, edited 2 times in total.
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Si
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Re: CUK supports BLM

Postby Si » 14 Jun 2020, 9:49am

I remember going that n a ride with a new club. Met a group of chaps...got a nice warm welcome...then we cycled to the top of this hossing gurt hill. Everyone collapsed at the top for a breather where upon one chap launched into a spate of racist jokes, liberally sprinkled with the N word. This seemed like acceptable behaviour to the others. Seems to me that there is certainly a need for fighting racism in cycling. There are loads of cyclists out there who are not racist, but it is still there and needs countering.

But should they make a public statement supporting BLM? My view is yes, as their remit is to promote cycling. As we know, traditionally BAME communities find it harder to access cycling because these days it's very much a white middle class thing. People in BAME communities do want to cycle but often find it very difficult. CUK has worked hard in a number of locations to make cycling more accessible every small thing that it can do, like supporting BLM, is a marginal gain.

BAME communities are often those with lower health levels, and are in inner city areas - the places where cycling could have a major impact for good.

Having said all of that and in the interests of balance..... I've done a lot of work promoting cycling in deprived areas and it's interesting that generally once the access and the welcome is there cycling can take off in higher BAME areas, whereas it does seem to be more of a struggle in poorer white dominated areas.

Anyway, it could be argued that CUKs major mistake in its recent announcement was expecting some people to read beyond the headlines before reacting.....I no doubt sound like a pseudo interlectual but today's society is conditioning people to have kneejerk reactions to Trump-like sound bites rather than digesting and understanding. I have noticed that some people have taken the time to understand the story and then use reasoned arguments to pick holes in it, whereas many have just got all worked up at the mention of BLM and cancelled their memberships.

Cyril Haearn
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Re: CUK supports BLM

Postby Cyril Haearn » 14 Jun 2020, 10:19am

Right again Si, I think you are one of the few on these fora who has significant knowledge of this

Racist 'jokes', -99
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reohn2
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Re: CUK supports BLM

Postby reohn2 » 14 Jun 2020, 10:31am

Cyril Haearn wrote:
Freddie wrote:Black Lives Matter support defunding the police though. How do CUK square the circle that they don't (tacitly) support illegal action, when BLM want the people who the enforce law and order, the police, to be no more.

Defunding the police and forming a new law and order authority, something like that happened in Eastern Europe from 1989, many policepersons were released and replaced, that is quite possible

Many police officwrs were released and not replaced here in the UK


Any society needs police, traffic police especially

Quite,and not just for policing demonstrations either,we need a police force to catch criminals who prey on the weak and vulnerable not the under funded excuse for a polics force we have presently.
Ask a bobby on the beat,not one with gold braid on his neb,what s/he really thinks of the way policing has gone in recent years.
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pete75
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Re: CUK supports BLM

Postby pete75 » 14 Jun 2020, 10:40am

Freddie wrote:Black Lives Matter support defunding the police though. How do CUK square the circle that they don't (tacitly) support illegal action, when BLM want the people who the enforce law and order, the police, to be no more.


So did the Conservative party from 2010 up until they produced the 2019 election manifesto.

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Re: CUK supports BLM

Postby Cyril Haearn » 14 Jun 2020, 10:43am

What is Cressida Dick up to at the minute?
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reohn2
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Re: CUK supports BLM

Postby reohn2 » 14 Jun 2020, 1:53pm

Cyril Haearn wrote:What is Cressida Dick up to at the minute?

Running a police force I should think.
I sincerely hope she's doing a better job of it than BoJo's doing running the country :?
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RickH
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Re: CUK supports BLM

Postby RickH » 14 Jun 2020, 7:03pm

al_yrpal wrote:It was pretty obvious from the inception of CUK and the attempted disbandment of the CTC the way things were headed. Thats why I and many other CTC members jacked it in and withdrew our support. Politicisation like this vividly illustrate the way things are going. ie anywhere but actually supporting the cycle touring community.
Never mind, we know who we are and BAME folk are welcome to join us out on the road as individuals and always have been.

Al

It all went horribly wrong when CTC got all political & started their campaigning activities...

... In 1886!
... When they were pivotal in the formation of the Roads Improvement Association.

pete75
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Re: CUK supports BLM

Postby pete75 » 15 Jun 2020, 1:39pm

Tangled Metal wrote:Virtue signalling isn't class based even colour based. It's about saying things that you think are positive or virtuous without really believing in it or without actually understanding it completely. It's about image over substance rather than class or colour. However you are more likely to get people who want to signal their sense of greater good among middle or chattering classes. Guardianistas are possibly the most likely to be guilty of this virtue signalling.

Of course I'm often accused of being right wing and we never have a single n virtuous thought in our body being money grabbing, selfish people that we are!!! :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: :lol:

Oh there's the right's virtue signalling. EU bad, foreigners bad, non white Brits bad, Muslims bad, Labour party bad etc etc

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Re: CUK supports BLM

Postby mjr » 15 Jun 2020, 1:43pm

jgurney wrote:The term appears to have then been taken up with enthusiam by social Darwinists, esp in the USA's New Right, who seem to use it to suggest that all assertions of charitable or altruistic feelings or values by anyone remotely to the left are false and designed to draw praise to that person.

The New Right are blooming snowflakes, then!
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