CUK supports BLM

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pedals2slowly
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Re: CUK supports BLM

Postby pedals2slowly » 15 Jun 2020, 8:29pm

'Black lives matter' and 'all live matter' are both correct.
The point is that this campaign is about equalling rights for blacks.
There are plenty of other social inequalities that need addressing but that doesn't negate the black lives matter statement

Most people wouldn't respond to a campaign for more prostate cancer testing with 'what about skin cancer?'
In a sticky situation, as a population we should be helping those in need without attempting to discredit the campaign by deflecting attention to something else.

I don't agree with the 'if you're not with us you're against us' but bloomin' heck if you start attempting to derail the conversation by saying something else is important you should be ashamed.

Sadly there are a vocal minority in this forum who just love to comment way off piste

slowster
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Re: CUK supports BLM

Postby slowster » 15 Jun 2020, 8:34pm

Personally I thought the statement was worthy, verbose and over-blown.

This event has shone a light on the many centuries of oppression and racism that the Black community has been subjected to.

At a time of global crisis, the protests will hopefully act as a catalyst for change through which we can all unite against any form of discrimination and social injustice to help create a fairer, more equal and more inclusive society.

To me, it comes across as a 'cookie cutter' corporate PR statement prepared by someone who - to use a stereotype - has a well paid career in the corporate/charity sector, knows the right thing to say from reading the Guardian, and uses the same cliched, lazy phrasing and expresses the same anodyne sentiments. I suspect that either the statement was drafted for him by a PR/reputation management consultant, or he has been on a PR/reputation management course where he was taught to prepare a statement like that.

Contrast the statement with Si's post above, which is extremely powerful and clearly spoken from the heart. Whilst Pete Fitzboydon might not have had the sort of personal experience to draw on that Si has had and describes so well, he could and should have written something that was more from the heart than from the PR handbook.

We also recognise that as an organisation we must work harder on our own diversity and inclusion, within our staff workforce, governance, volunteers and membership to become more representative of society and particularly those groups who we seek to help through our programmes, cycling and active travel.

We will also be educating all our staff further and trustees to learn, reflect and revisit our practices, the way we communicate and the programmes we run, and will be inviting comment, recommendation and opinion from all communities on how we can do better.

A simple statement that CUK is aware that it needs to do its small but important bit as part of the wider movement in society to tackle racism and discrimination, by encouraging and helping black people and other minority groups to take up cycling and making them feel welcome, would have been more effective.

The mention of white adult men was unnecessary and misjudged, because as this thread shows it has needlessly alienated some of those members. The statement just needed to focus on changing the under-representation of BAME and other minority groups, there was no need to say that white adult men were, by definition, over-represented, which would be likely to lead some of them to infer from the statement that they were not welcome in CUK.

Lastly, there is a lot of mention of under representation of black people and other minority groups in the statement, and in the strategy to which the statement refers. However, what stands out - especially in the strategy - is that there are no reasons identified or given for that under-representation. The strategy has increased cycling by those groups as a target, but doesn't spell out how it is going to do that except in the vaguest aspirational terms. If you don't know why the groups are under-represented, you cannot identify what measures will be effective in changing that.

markjohnobrien
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Re: CUK supports BLM

Postby markjohnobrien » 15 Jun 2020, 8:41pm

pete75 wrote:
Freddie wrote:Black Lives Matter support defunding the police though. How do CUK square the circle that they don't (tacitly) support illegal action, when BLM want the people who the enforce law and order, the police, to be no more.


So did the Conservative party from 2010 up until they produced the 2019 election manifesto.



I’m afraid you don’t understand what defunding the Police means from a BLM perspective. It ranges from reducing funding, or making cuts, at one end of the spectrum up to completely abolishing the Police in its entirety as they view the Police as agents of capitalist oppression and want to dismantle capitalism: its far or extreme left on the political spectrum.

https://uk.gofundme.com/f/ukblm-fund

“We’re guided by a commitment to dismantle imperialism, capitalism, white-supremacy, patriarchy and the state structures that disproportionately harm black people in Britain and around the world. We build deep relationships across the diaspora and strategise to challenge the rise of the authoritarian right-wing across the world, from Brazil to Britain”

And, from looking at BLM UK aims on their website, they state: https://uk.gofundme.com/f/ukblm-fund

“Developing and delivering training, police monitoring and strategies for the abolition of police”

reohn2
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Re: CUK supports BLM

Postby reohn2 » 15 Jun 2020, 9:06pm

robing wrote:
reohn2 wrote:From what I've seen,over the w/end the people causing the most trouble including attacks of police have been those thugs involved in counter demonstrations to anti racism demonstrations.
The anti racism demonstrations have been overwhelmingly non violent but for a bit of grafitti and the tearing down of an effigy of a slave trader that should've been torn down decades ago!

As for CUK allying itself with the racial oppressed in our society,good on them!


Several police were injured the weekend before by BLM protestors and missiles were thrown at the police and bikes were pushed at horses.

I'm no apologist for nutters,there's bound to be some in any crowd no matter how peaceful the organiser's attempts at keeping it so.
But this last w/end the crowds of effigy protectors(for want of a better term) were out and out thugs there for any opportunity for a fight,which can't be said for the vast majority of BLM protesters.
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windmiller
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Re: CUK supports BLM

Postby windmiller » 15 Jun 2020, 10:41pm

Vorpal wrote:
windmiller wrote:
"Performance activism", never seen this used before, then again I'm not up to speed with correct speak. Sounds very ambiguous and will no doubt lead to confused moments of clarity even among the converted. Now 'virtue signaling' says exactly what it means on the tin - no need for explanations at all.


signal, definition
an action, movement, or sound that gives information, a message, a warning, or an order:
When she gave (them) the signal, they all cheered.
[ + that ] The fireworks were a signal that the festival had started.
[ + to infinitive ] The police officer gave us the signal to stop.
The signal for a race to start is often the firing of a gun.
a series of electrical or radio waves that are sent to a radio or television in order to produce a sound, picture, or message
Examples
Thesaurus: synonyms and related words
signal noun [C] (SHOWING)
something that shows that something else exists or is likely to happen:
The loss is a clear signal of his deteriorating confidence.
The changing colour of the leaves on the trees is a signal that it will soon be autumn.

from https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictio ... ish/signal

What you are telling me is that when signal doesn't actually mean signal, that is clear?


From the same dictionary:


Meaning of virtue signalling in English
virtue signalling
noun [ U ]
UK (US virtue signaling)


Meaning of virtue signalling in English
virtue signalling
noun [ U ]
UK (US virtue signaling)
uk
/ˈvɜː.tʃuː ˌsɪɡ.nəl.ɪŋ/ us
/ˈvɝː.tʃuː ˌsɪɡ.nəl.ɪŋ/
an attempt to show other people that you are a good person, for example by expressing opinions that will be acceptable to them, especially on social media:
Virtue signalling is the popular modern habit of indicating that one has virtue merely by expressing disgust or favour for certain political ideas or cultural happenings.
Thesaurus: synonyms and related words
Feeling morally superior

claim
claim the moral high ground idiom
de haut en bas
holier-than-thou
judgmental
judgmentally
moralistic
pearl-clutching
preachy
priggish
righteous
sanctimonious
sanctimoniously
sanctimoniousness
self-righteous
self-righteously
superior
superiority complex

This is a definition of the noun and not you by the way, just so that there is no confusion. I don't understand your question. I hope you have better luck with mine.

In your opinion was the tearing down of the statue of Edward Colsten and dumping in the river, an act of criminality or a good example of Performance Activism, or both?

Vorpal
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Re: CUK supports BLM

Postby Vorpal » 15 Jun 2020, 11:10pm

windmiller wrote:
In your opinion was the tearing down of the statue of Edward Colsten and dumping in the river, an act of criminality or a good example of Performance Activism, or both?

It was not performance activism. Performance activism is activism for an audience, without underlying substance.

I have mixed feeling about the act. There's certainly a part of me the cheered, watching the protestors take it down and put it in the river. And it seems that the deomcratic process had failed in one or more ways, in getting it removed legally.

I will say that if any of the protestors face consequences as a result of their act, the consequences should be relatively mild, such as community service. I also think that there should be an inquiry into the failings of the process that should or could have removed the statue earlier, legally.
“In some ways, it is easier to be a dissident, for then one is without responsibility.”
― Nelson Mandela, Long Walk to Freedom

robing
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Re: CUK supports BLM

Postby robing » 15 Jun 2020, 11:17pm

reohn2 wrote:
robing wrote:
reohn2 wrote:From what I've seen,over the w/end the people causing the most trouble including attacks of police have been those thugs involved in counter demonstrations to anti racism demonstrations.
The anti racism demonstrations have been overwhelmingly non violent but for a bit of grafitti and the tearing down of an effigy of a slave trader that should've been torn down decades ago!

As for CUK allying itself with the racial oppressed in our society,good on them!


Several police were injured the weekend before by BLM protestors and missiles were thrown at the police and bikes were pushed at horses.

I'm no apologist for nutters,there's bound to be some in any crowd no matter how peaceful the organiser's attempts at keeping it so.
But this last w/end the crowds of effigy protectors(for want of a better term) were out and out thugs there for any opportunity for a fight,which can't be said for the vast majority of BLM protesters.


Confusion time ..

Yesterday’s and last weekend’s violent protests were both disgusting & shameful

according to the BBC - yesterday’s “violent London protests” resulted in 6 police officers being injured... yet last weekend’s “largely peaceful protests” left 27 police officers injured.

Who knew

reohn2
Posts: 39309
Joined: 26 Jun 2009, 8:21pm

Re: CUK supports BLM

Postby reohn2 » 15 Jun 2020, 11:20pm

robing wrote:
Confusion time ..

Yesterday’s and last weekend’s violent protests were both disgusting & shameful

according to the BBC - yesterday’s “violent London protests” resulted in 6 police officers being injured... yet last weekend’s “largely peaceful protests” left 27 police officers injured.

Who knew

Who caused what?
And how large were each of the protests?
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Oldjohnw
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Location: Northumberland

Re: CUK supports BLM

Postby Oldjohnw » 16 Jun 2020, 5:44am

robing wrote:
reohn2 wrote:
robing wrote:
Several police were injured the weekend before by BLM protestors and missiles were thrown at the police and bikes were pushed at horses.

I'm no apologist for nutters,there's bound to be some in any crowd no matter how peaceful the organiser's attempts at keeping it so.
But this last w/end the crowds of effigy protectors(for want of a better term) were out and out thugs there for any opportunity for a fight,which can't be said for the vast majority of BLM protesters.


Confusion time ..

Yesterday’s and last weekend’s violent protests were both disgusting & shameful

according to the BBC - yesterday’s “violent London protests” resulted in 6 police officers being injured... yet last weekend’s “largely peaceful protests” left 27 police officers injured.

Who knew


Last weekend the demo was quite small so quite a lot of arrests relatively. It's purpose was mayhem. The BLM demo was huge, largely peaceful so relatively just a few arrests.

In Newcastle, the anti-anti-fascist demonstrators caused mayhem around Grey's Monument. The BLM people were never going to attack this because
a) Earl Grey was the PM whose government abolisythe slave trade, and
b) how would they climb 235 feet up to collect a statue to throw into the River Tyne, over a mile away?

It was therefore evident that trouble was their only goal.
Last edited by Oldjohnw on 16 Jun 2020, 7:30am, edited 2 times in total.
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Cunobelin
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Re: CUK supports BLM

Postby Cunobelin » 16 Jun 2020, 6:28am

robing wrote:
reohn2 wrote:
robing wrote:
Several police were injured the weekend before by BLM protestors and missiles were thrown at the police and bikes were pushed at horses.

I'm no apologist for nutters,there's bound to be some in any crowd no matter how peaceful the organiser's attempts at keeping it so.
But this last w/end the crowds of effigy protectors(for want of a better term) were out and out thugs there for any opportunity for a fight,which can't be said for the vast majority of BLM protesters.


Confusion time ..

Yesterday’s and last weekend’s violent protests were both disgusting & shameful

according to the BBC - yesterday’s “violent London protests” resulted in 6 police officers being injured... yet last weekend’s “largely peaceful protests” left 27 police officers injured.

Who knew



Not the best choice as a measure.

Multiple events with thousands taking part and a small part are involved with violence against the Police and the statement is true that the events were largely peaceful

robing
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Re: CUK supports BLM

Postby robing » 16 Jun 2020, 7:41am

To say that the protests of the first weekend were peaceful is disingenuous. On both Saturday and Sunday evening there were significant attacks against the police. That weekend was BLM only. The far right only got involved the weekend just gone as a response to what happened the previous weekend. And with far right and BLM mixing there was bound to be trouble.

reohn2
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Joined: 26 Jun 2009, 8:21pm

Re: CUK supports BLM

Postby reohn2 » 16 Jun 2020, 8:32am

robing wrote:To say that the protests of the first weekend were peaceful is disingenuous. On both Saturday and Sunday evening there were significant attacks against the police. That weekend was BLM only. The far right only got involved the weekend just gone as a response to what happened the previous weekend. And with far right and BLM mixing there was bound to be trouble.

As I posted previously I'm no defender of nutters but the BLM protests were huge,all over the country and predominently peaceful by all accounts,that said there are bound to be a number of nutters in such large protests but their percentage was small by comparison.
By contrast the small protests by far right loonies were predominetly out for bother and little else
I don't read the 'news' papers mainly due to the bais of their owners,so I'm unaware that BLM and far right demonstrators were allowed to mix but were AFAIA kept apart by police.

To be clear I abhor violence on the street other than in self defence and particularly at demonstrations against violence such as the BLM's .
I support BLM's overall ethos of equality but their stance on the abolition of the police is plainly ridiculous,it's never going to happen however much anyone wants it to.
But I will say that the positive actions or lack of,of the government toward BAME and other minority groups not just to do with race,but the disabled,mental health,the old and infirm and the poor,over the past ten years has been disgraceful and has amounted to fine words from the lips of liars and very little else.
IMV what's happening now is a release of tension,anger and frustration against an unbalanced system in power and a society teetering on the brink of mayhem as a result,not least due to extremely bad government and particularly the way the pandemic has been handle recently by the present bunch of out of touch liars.
George Floyd's death in the US was the last straw for BAME people world wide and in the UK.
Last edited by reohn2 on 16 Jun 2020, 8:39am, edited 1 time in total.
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pete75
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Re: CUK supports BLM

Postby pete75 » 16 Jun 2020, 8:34am

markjohnobrien wrote:
pete75 wrote:
Freddie wrote:Black Lives Matter support defunding the police though. How do CUK square the circle that they don't (tacitly) support illegal action, when BLM want the people who the enforce law and order, the police, to be no more.


So did the Conservative party from 2010 up until they produced the 2019 election manifesto.



I’m afraid you don’t understand what defunding the Police means from a BLM perspective. It ranges from reducing funding, or making cuts, at one end of the spectrum up to completely abolishing the Police in its entirety as they view the Police as agents of capitalist oppression and want to dismantle capitalism: its far or extreme left on the political spectrum.

https://uk.gofundme.com/f/ukblm-fund

“We’re guided by a commitment to dismantle imperialism, capitalism, white-supremacy, patriarchy and the state structures that disproportionately harm black people in Britain and around the world. We build deep relationships across the diaspora and strategise to challenge the rise of the authoritarian right-wing across the world, from Brazil to Britain”

And, from looking at BLM UK aims on their website, they state: https://uk.gofundme.com/f/ukblm-fund

“Developing and delivering training, police monitoring and strategies for the abolition of police”


I know exactly what they mean an dmy comment was slightly facetious. However you seem to agree - as you say "It ranges from reducing funding, or making cuts, at one end of the spectrum" - which is exactly what the Conservative party were doing from 2010 up until Boris Johnson realised it wasn't a very popular policy with a lot of voters.

pete75
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Re: CUK supports BLM

Postby pete75 » 16 Jun 2020, 8:35am

robing wrote:To say that the protests of the first weekend were peaceful is disingenuous. On both Saturday and Sunday evening there were significant attacks against the police. That weekend was BLM only. The far right only got involved the weekend just gone as a response to what happened the previous weekend. And with far right and BLM mixing there was bound to be trouble.


Where the attacks on the police before or after the police attacked the demonstrators?

reohn2
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Re: CUK supports BLM

Postby reohn2 » 16 Jun 2020, 8:43am

pete75 wrote: I know exactly what they mean an dmy comment was slightly facetious. However you seem to agree - as you say "It ranges from reducing funding, or making cuts, at one end of the spectrum" - which is exactly what the Conservative party were doing from 2010 up until Boris Johnson realised it wasn't a very popular policy with a lot of voters.

Quite!
20,000 police staff defunding by a government completely out of touch with reality and who care only for the rich and more well off in UK society.
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