CUK supports BLM

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Oldjohnw
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Re: CUK supports BLM

Postby Oldjohnw » 16 Jun 2020, 11:50am

reohn2 wrote:
pete75 wrote: I know exactly what they mean an dmy comment was slightly facetious. However you seem to agree - as you say "It ranges from reducing funding, or making cuts, at one end of the spectrum" - which is exactly what the Conservative party were doing from 2010 up until Boris Johnson realised it wasn't a very popular policy with a lot of voters.

Quite!
20,000 police staff defunding by a government completely out of touch with reality and who care only for the rich and more well off in UK society.


Imv it's extremely unlikely that the promised 20,000 'new' officers will ever happen.
John

robing
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Re: CUK supports BLM

Postby robing » 16 Jun 2020, 12:02pm

reohn2 wrote:
robing wrote:To say that the protests of the first weekend were peaceful is disingenuous. On both Saturday and Sunday evening there were significant attacks against the police. That weekend was BLM only. The far right only got involved the weekend just gone as a response to what happened the previous weekend. And with far right and BLM mixing there was bound to be trouble.

As I posted previously I'm no defender of nutters but the BLM protests were huge,all over the country and predominently peaceful by all accounts,that said there are bound to be a number of nutters in such large protests but their percentage was small by comparison.
By contrast the small protests by far right loonies were predominetly out for bother and little else
I don't read the 'news' papers mainly due to the bais of their owners,so I'm unaware that BLM and far right demonstrators were allowed to mix but were AFAIA kept apart by police.

To be clear I abhor violence on the street other than in self defence and particularly at demonstrations against violence such as the BLM's .
I support BLM's overall ethos of equality but their stance on the abolition of the police is plainly ridiculous,it's never going to happen however much anyone wants it to.
But I will say that the positive actions or lack of,of the government toward BAME and other minority groups not just to do with race,but the disabled,mental health,the old and infirm and the poor,over the past ten years has been disgraceful and has amounted to fine words from the lips of liars and very little else.
IMV what's happening now is a release of tension,anger and frustration against an unbalanced system in power and a society teetering on the brink of mayhem as a result,not least due to extremely bad government and particularly the way the pandemic has been handle recently by the present bunch of out of touch liars.
George Floyd's death in the US was the last straw for BAME people world wide and in the UK.


That's a good and well considered post and I don't disagree with it.

reohn2
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Re: CUK supports BLM

Postby reohn2 » 16 Jun 2020, 12:16pm

Oldjohnw wrote:Imv it's extremely unlikely that the promised 20,000 'new' officers will ever happen.

TBH the more I hear government ministers and the PM in their daily diatribe the less I believe them.
Not that I had much faith in the Tory liars previously but their credibility which was just above ground level dropped off a cliff when the present bunch of liars assumed residence.
Creeps and liars not fit for office the lot of them
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markjohnobrien
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Re: CUK supports BLM

Postby markjohnobrien » 16 Jun 2020, 1:17pm

reohn2 wrote:
robing wrote:
reohn2 wrote:From what I've seen,over the w/end the people causing the most trouble including attacks of police have been those thugs involved in counter demonstrations to anti racism demonstrations.
The anti racism demonstrations have been overwhelmingly non violent but for a bit of grafitti and the tearing down of an effigy of a slave trader that should've been torn down decades ago!

As for CUK allying itself with the racial oppressed in our society,good on them!


Several police were injured the weekend before by BLM protestors and missiles were thrown at the police and bikes were pushed at horses.

I'm no apologist for nutters,there's bound to be some in any crowd no matter how peaceful the organiser's attempts at keeping it so.
But this last w/end the crowds of effigy protectors(for want of a better term) were out and out thugs there for any opportunity for a fight,which can't be said for the vast majority of BLM protesters.


Hmmm.
Protests from far left BLM on previous weekend at so-called peaceful protests caused 50 injuries to Police.
Counter protests from far right caused 6 Police injuries.

A plague on both their extremist houses as both are immoderate, don’t listen to reason, and occupy the far left and far right of the political typology. Thank god we’ve never had Communist or Nazi governments in this country.

reohn2
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Re: CUK supports BLM

Postby reohn2 » 16 Jun 2020, 1:45pm

markjohnobrien wrote:
Hmmm.
Protests from far left BLM on previous weekend at so-called peaceful protests caused 50 injuries to Police.
Counter protests from far right caused 6 Police injuries.

See my previous posts on equivelant protest sizes and percentages.

A plague on both their extremist houses as both are immoderate, don’t listen to reason, and occupy the far left and far right of the political typology

The plague is abroad in the country as we speak with the latest death count at 41,000 so far,which could've been kept to an absolute minimum,if it hadn't been helped along by a totally inept government currently trying to lie it's way out of it's total ineptitude and failure.

Thank god we’ve never had Communist or Nazi governments in this country.

I don't believe in God.
But I do believe in good government and democracy,something totally lacking in the UK.
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pete75
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Re: CUK supports BLM

Postby pete75 » 16 Jun 2020, 6:54pm

Oldjohnw wrote:
reohn2 wrote:
pete75 wrote: I know exactly what they mean an dmy comment was slightly facetious. However you seem to agree - as you say "It ranges from reducing funding, or making cuts, at one end of the spectrum" - which is exactly what the Conservative party were doing from 2010 up until Boris Johnson realised it wasn't a very popular policy with a lot of voters.

Quite!
20,000 police staff defunding by a government completely out of touch with reality and who care only for the rich and more well off in UK society.


Imv it's extremely unlikely that the promised 20,000 'new' officers will ever happen.


It was Johnson who promised them so you're on pretty safe ground with that.

robing
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Re: CUK supports BLM

Postby robing » 25 Jun 2020, 3:26pm

I had a reply back from CUK. I won't bore you with the details but the person signed off with 'she/her/hers' :roll:

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Philip Benstead
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Re: CUK supports BLM

Postby Philip Benstead » 25 Jun 2020, 10:40pm

robing wrote:I had a reply back from CUK. I won't bore you with the details but the person signed off with 'she/her/hers' :roll:


They could use these if you like
He/She -- Zie, Sie, Ey, Ve, Tey, E
Him/Her -- Zim, Sie, Em, Ver, Ter, Em
His/Her -- Zir, Hir, Eir, Vis, Tem, Eir
His/Hers -- Zis, Hirs, Eirs, Vers, Ters, Eirs
Himself/Herself -- Zieself, Hirself, Eirself, Verself, Terself, Emself

There is more choice here https://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlines/ ... book-users
Philip Benstead | Life Member Former CTC Councillor/Trustee
Organizing events and representing cyclist in southeast since 1988
Bikeability Instructor/Mechanic

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NUKe
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Re: CUK supports BLM

Postby NUKe » 25 Jun 2020, 11:34pm

Freddie wrote:Black Lives Matter support defunding the police though. How do CUK square the circle that they don't (tacitly) support illegal action, when BLM want the people who the enforce law and order, the police, to be no more.

You are taking this out of context. Defunding the police is about the American system it’s not that they don’t want a police force, it’s just they want the corrupt American system taken down and rebuilt fairer.
NUKe
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NickWi
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Re: CUK supports BLM

Postby NickWi » 26 Jun 2020, 3:13pm

NUKe wrote:
Freddie wrote:Black Lives Matter support defunding the police though. How do CUK square the circle that they don't (tacitly) support illegal action, when BLM want the people who the enforce law and order, the police, to be no more.

You are taking this out of context. Defunding the police is about the American system it’s not that they don’t want a police force, it’s just they want the corrupt American system taken down and rebuilt fairer.


Not True. An extract from the UK BLM Go Fund Me page ( https://uk.gofundme.com/f/ukblm-fund )

How we’ll spend the funds!
- Work towards making change at the level of law.
- Developing and distributing educational resources.
- Developing and delivering healing practices in black communities.
- Developing and delivering training, police monitoring and strategies for the abolition of police. Working alongside existing anti-racist organisations to strengthen the wider movement across the UK.
- Supporting the United Family & Friends Campaign (UFFC) in accessing justice for friends and loved ones killed at the hands of British police.
- Providing emergency relief to black communities bearing the brunt of the Coronavirus crisis


Many of those aims are laudable, but there is also a stong connection to the political far left which goes unreported by much of the press. I have no objections to people supporting the BLM movement, just they need to be made aware of the hidden adgenda. If that still appeals, fine, if not support one of the other anti racist movements that want harmony, not revolution.

Cyril Haearn
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Re: CUK supports BLM

Postby Cyril Haearn » 26 Jun 2020, 3:31pm

Obviously some sort of order corps is necessary, could have another name

In the communist countries there were unpaid 'Blockwaerte', block cops, they dealt with people who put washing out on Sunday or parked illegally, +1!
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mercalia
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Re: CUK supports BLM

Postby mercalia » 26 Jun 2020, 7:51pm

what do people think of this article from the Spectator ( assuming you are allowed to read it)

Revealed: What ‘Black Lives Matter’ really stands for

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/revealed-what-black-lives-matter-really-stands-for

Written byTom Goodenough

Tom Goodenough is the Spectator's online editor.


anyone know his credentials?

Vorpal
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Re: CUK supports BLM

Postby Vorpal » 26 Jun 2020, 8:11pm

I think that even within the the BLM movement, opinion varies somewhat. But in general, there are some things that are currently handled by police in both countries that could be better done by social workers, or better, prevented with education, and social care. Also, when people are criminalised by the system, they should be rehabilitated, not imprisoned.

I don't think anyone is saying that enforcement is never required. Only that the current approach to it is unfair and unjust; blacks and ethnic minorities are disproportionately affected.

The police in the UK are much better that way than in the USA. There seems to be less corruption, and they are not militarised the way US American police are, but that's not to say that there is no problem.

It is well known crime and economic inequality are related. That suggests that money might be better spent to prevent crime than on policing.
Additionally, institutional racism needs to be addressed. Not only in policing, but how it is reported.

Defund the police may be a radical idea, but in a just society, there wouldn't be a need for them. That doesn't mean we can eliminate them tomorrow.
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Ben@Forest
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Re: CUK supports BLM

Postby Ben@Forest » 26 Jun 2020, 9:19pm

Vorpal wrote:It is well known crime and economic inequality are related. That suggests that money might be better spent to prevent crime than on policing.


As a society and with little recourse to the state we already spend a huge amount on crime prevention. This is of course physical security; the Home Office Economic and Social Cost of Crime Report suggests that commercially and as individuals we spend £6.3 bn annually for protecting property, protecting property specifically against burglary, protecting cars and protecting the person.

I don't know whether we have educated ourselves into lower crime levels (historically crime is l believe less violent overall despite the feeling that it's getting worse). But our period of greatest economic equality, the 1970s, saw no reduction in crime level.

Vorpal
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Re: CUK supports BLM

Postby Vorpal » 27 Jun 2020, 11:19am

Ben@Forest wrote:
Vorpal wrote:It is well known crime and economic inequality are related. That suggests that money might be better spent to prevent crime than on policing.


As a society and with little recourse to the state we already spend a huge amount on crime prevention. This is of course physical security; the Home Office Economic and Social Cost of Crime Report suggests that commercially and as individuals we spend £6.3 bn annually for protecting property, protecting property specifically against burglary, protecting cars and protecting the person.

I don't know whether we have educated ourselves into lower crime levels (historically crime is l believe less violent overall despite the feeling that it's getting worse). But our period of greatest economic equality, the 1970s, saw no reduction in crime level.

There are a couple of things about this...
1) I was not refering spcifically to crime prevention, but to avoiding the economic and social challenges that create an environment where crime is acceptable
2) Some of the crime prevention currently in place is not effective, and may, in fact, have the opposite effect because it presents choices as if the police, schools, and system are good, and crime is bad, where increasingly crimilaised youth can observe for themselves that is not necessarily so clear cut.
“In some ways, it is easier to be a dissident, for then one is without responsibility.”
― Nelson Mandela, Long Walk to Freedom