Black Durham trainee vicar denied job at 'white' church

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mercalia
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Re: Black Durham trainee vicar denied job at 'white' church

Postby mercalia » 17 Jun 2020, 5:40pm

Bonefishblues wrote:
mercalia wrote:
Bonefishblues wrote:Woah, hold on right there. The guy's a clear victim of direct racial discrimination, despite my having a little enjoyment with the legislation.

Have you at all been understanding the BLM events of recent weeks? If you can write that about someone who is calling out discrimination, then perhaps not.


if it is descrimination. we dont agree on that. Yes I have seen some of the hysterical nonsense under the BLM banner. I dont intend to go there. The guy has a suprizingly secular attitude more appropriate to jobs elsewhere. What does he now want? demand the post in a diocese that dont want him? financial compensation? his pound of flesh?

He is calling out an example of direct racial discrimination. Should people so affected sit on their hands for fear of being thought hysterical?


what ever it is, it aint direct racial discrimination. The appointment board has no problem with employing him. just a matter of the right fit, given the realities and variety of placement conditions.

slowster
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Re: Black Durham trainee vicar denied job at 'white' church

Postby slowster » 17 Jun 2020, 5:41pm

Jesus and the Disciples did not avoid confronting sin. They met it head on, making it clear that they loved the sinner but hated the sin, and called on people to follow their teachings.

Racism is a sin. It is not the role of the Church or individual Christians to pander to sin, but to confront and challenge it. Even if that makes life difficult, even dangerous, for themselves in doing so.

Bonefishblues
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Re: Black Durham trainee vicar denied job at 'white' church

Postby Bonefishblues » 17 Jun 2020, 5:46pm

mercalia wrote:
Bonefishblues wrote:
mercalia wrote:
if it is descrimination. we dont agree on that. Yes I have seen some of the hysterical nonsense under the BLM banner. I dont intend to go there. The guy has a suprizingly secular attitude more appropriate to jobs elsewhere. What does he now want? demand the post in a diocese that dont want him? financial compensation? his pound of flesh?

He is calling out an example of direct racial discrimination. Should people so affected sit on their hands for fear of being thought hysterical?


what ever it is, it aint direct racial discrimination. The appointment board has no problem with employing him. just a matter of the right fit, given the realities and variety of placement conditions.

He didn't get the job because of his race. That's about as direct as it gets. It's reason 1. On the letter that was sent to him.

https://www.equalityhumanrights.com/en/ ... ion#direct

roubaixtuesday
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Re: Black Durham trainee vicar denied job at 'white' church

Postby roubaixtuesday » 17 Jun 2020, 5:48pm

mercalia wrote:

Putting aside the guys colour, I wouldnt want him as a curate as he is too self righteous, needs to learn a bit of humility and grasp perhaps the holy spirit dont want him there ( thats a common way of thinking with some christians? I have known quite a few like that)


You deem yourself privy to the thoughts of the Holy Spirit.

You lecture others about the need to learn humility.

That's one hell of a juxtaposition right there.

mercalia
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Re: Black Durham trainee vicar denied job at 'white' church

Postby mercalia » 17 Jun 2020, 5:59pm

Bonefishblues wrote:
mercalia wrote:
Bonefishblues wrote:He is calling out an example of direct racial discrimination. Should people so affected sit on their hands for fear of being thought hysterical?


what ever it is, it aint direct racial discrimination. The appointment board has no problem with employing him. just a matter of the right fit, given the realities and variety of placement conditions.

He didn't get the job because of his race. That's about as direct as it gets. It's reason 1. On the letter that was sent to him.

https://www.equalityhumanrights.com/en/ ... ion#direct


he didnt get the job because there wasnt a sufficient match and 2 reasons highlighted. You are reading into it any primacy of one over the other. And one was him not feeling comfortable there, which is not the same as he being black. There maybe reasons why the issue of comfort was presented first eg most personally persuasive.
Last edited by mercalia on 17 Jun 2020, 6:07pm, edited 1 time in total.

slowster
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Re: Black Durham trainee vicar denied job at 'white' church

Postby slowster » 17 Jun 2020, 6:16pm

mercalia wrote:
Bonefishblues wrote:
mercalia wrote:
what ever it is, it aint direct racial discrimination. The appointment board has no problem with employing him. just a matter of the right fit, given the realities and variety of placement conditions.

He didn't get the job because of his race. That's about as direct as it gets. It's reason 1. On the letter that was sent to him.

https://www.equalityhumanrights.com/en/ ... ion#direct


he didnt get the job because there wasnt a sufficient match and 2 reasons highlighted. You are reading into it any primacy of one over the other. And one was him not feeling comfortable there, which is not the same as he being black.

The letter said:
Firstly, the demographic of the parish is monochrome white working class, where you might feel uncomfortable.

They did not know that he might feel uncomfortable, they simply chose to assume it. They knew they were doing the wrong thing, but dressed it up as concern for him. If they had genuinely had such concerns, they would have asked him how he would cope with a parish of that demographic make up. The reality was probably that they thought the parish would be 'uncomfortable', but did not dare say so.

Giving it as the first reason, even prefaced by 'Firstly', makes it very clear that it was at the top of their list of considerations.

reohn2
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Re: Black Durham trainee vicar denied job at 'white' church

Postby reohn2 » 17 Jun 2020, 6:59pm

slowster wrote:The letter said:
Firstly, the demographic of the parish is monochrome white working class, where you might feel uncomfortable.

They did not know that he might feel uncomfortable, they simply chose to assume it. They knew they were doing the wrong thing, but dressed it up as concern for him. If they had genuinely had such concerns, they would have asked him how he would cope with a parish of that demographic make up. The reality was probably that they thought the parish would be 'uncomfortable', but did not dare say so.

Giving it as the first reason, even prefaced by 'Firstly', makes it very clear that it was at the top of their list of considerations.

Spot on!
A clear case of institutionalised racism wrapped up in snowflake speak.
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slowster
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Re: Black Durham trainee vicar denied job at 'white' church

Postby slowster » 17 Jun 2020, 7:38pm

Carlton green wrote:my finding is that quite often here whatever you say or write will just not be acceptable to some people; as far as they are concerned only what they say and write is valid and anything else is both plain wrong and a diversion from the important truth as proclaimed by them. YMMV but the term Zealot comes to my mind as a description of those people, to my mind there’s but very limited value in engaging with people that are not open to alternative views.

You previously wrote:
Carlton green wrote:In this case the applicant wasn’t an obvious contender for fitting that job

In what way was he not a good fit? In the example which you gave in your post I can understand how a congregation might not be receptive to an evangelical priest's style of preaching, but there is no reference in the article or the letter to this person having any particular qualities which would make him not an 'obvious contender', other than the implicit reference to his being black (by inference from the comment about the white working class parish). On the contrary, the letter mentions his 'obvious gifts'.

Carlton green wrote:Rejection happens in life - remember asking some pretty girl for a date and being told to sod off - and a sensible person accepts that and moves on, others do have the right to make choices that meet their needs ahead of your own.

This is not about one individual choosing or rejecting another as a friend, lover or spouse. This is about the Church rejecting a man on grounds of his race, contrary to all Christian teaching. Why would the parish need a curate who was not black?
Last edited by slowster on 17 Jun 2020, 7:41pm, edited 1 time in total.

Cyril Haearn
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Re: Black Durham trainee vicar denied job at 'white' church

Postby Cyril Haearn » 17 Jun 2020, 7:41pm

Jesus is not white
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99.9%certain
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Re: Black Durham trainee vicar denied job at 'white' church

Postby 99.9%certain » 17 Jun 2020, 9:03pm

Cyril Haearn wrote:Jesus is not white

He is(or was) if you believe all the pictures of him according to Christianity.That is of course assuming you believe the FairyTale :wink:

Just my two pen'orth.Clear case of Racism,no more,no less.Trying to justify what the church did in this case is nothing short of blinkered :x

Oldjohnw
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Re: Black Durham trainee vicar denied job at 'white' church

Postby Oldjohnw » 18 Jun 2020, 12:42am

The former Archbishop of Canterbury has just been suspended for sweeping child sex abuse under the carpet. The church has to treat these institutional problems seriously. It isn't just a question of "tough cookie mate, now move on".
John

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simonineaston
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Re: Black Durham trainee vicar denied job at 'white' church

Postby simonineaston » 18 Jun 2020, 10:52am

Fortunately for the frustrated fellow, we are assured that god (assuming he's picked the right one...) is omnipresent. It simply doesn't matter where he works, or for whom. God's love will be there for him anywhere and he will be able to Do Good whatever colour his face, or those of the flock, or indeed that of god him/herself... Phew - thank goodness!
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(currently enjoying a Moulton TSR & a nano Brompton...)

Oldjohnw
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Re: Black Durham trainee vicar denied job at 'white' church

Postby Oldjohnw » 19 Jun 2020, 7:22am

I believe he was a student at Durham but it was the Hertfordshire Diocese which wrote to him declining a job offer.
John

mercalia
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Re: Black Durham trainee vicar denied job at 'white' church

Postby mercalia » 19 Jun 2020, 8:47am

Oldjohnw wrote:I believe he was a student at Durham but it was the Hertfordshire Diocese which wrote to him declining a job offer.


where did the Hertfordshire info come from?

Oldjohnw
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Re: Black Durham trainee vicar denied job at 'white' church

Postby Oldjohnw » 19 Jun 2020, 8:56am

mercalia wrote:
Oldjohnw wrote:I believe he was a student at Durham but it was the Hertfordshire Diocese which wrote to him declining a job offer.


where did the Hertfordshire info come from?


His own tweet which I now can't find!
John