Do we need to take individual responsibility for Covid prevention measures?

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Cunobelin
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Do we need to take individual responsibility for Covid prevention measures?

Postby Cunobelin » 21 Jun 2020, 6:15pm

Given the current fiascos with Track and Trace and the previous debacles with PPPE and testing, the Government record is hardly good

Now we have the inconsistency over whether we will bring the 2m rule down to 1 m or 1m Plus, with no consistency, guidance or scientific evidence to support.

We also have Priti Patel spouting the disproven "Immunity Passports" and Hancock wanting electronic registration to use a pub.

Finally we have the return to school in September, again with no real guidance, evidence or support.



Have we now reached the stage where we need to make our own minds up, decide on our own whether we lower the 2 m rule, or decide for ourselves whether pubs or schools are safe?

Will you be following Government advice and guidelines, or deciding on your own level of prevention?

djnotts
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Re: Do we need to take individual responsibility for Covid prevention measures?

Postby djnotts » 21 Jun 2020, 6:35pm

Last question first. As over 70 and arguably in most at risk category I shall continue with stringent social distancing I have followed from day one. By present definition I have been in close contact with only one person since mid-March. It will stay that way for the foreseeable future.

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cycleruk
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Re: Do we need to take individual responsibility for Covid prevention measures?

Postby cycleruk » 21 Jun 2020, 6:56pm

I will take into account government guidance but I will use what common sense I have and do my own thing. Stay clear of groups such as in shops and general social distance, wash my hands, use PPE gloves where needed etc. We have hand sanitiser & gloves in the car and a couple of face masks.
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Tangled Metal
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Re: Do we need to take individual responsibility for Covid prevention measures?

Postby Tangled Metal » 21 Jun 2020, 7:14pm

Hasn't it always been up to the individual at the ultimate level? I could easily have gone through the lockdown ignoring the 2m rule but I've tried damned hard to follow it even if I didn't believe it was right (Germany 1.5m, WHO 1m, etc). I've avoided busy supermarkets favouring quieter times. I've avoided going too far from my house when it was still rising in terms of infections.

Right now I'm not wearing masks because I am not in close contact for 15 minutes or even close to that. I do an hands or use alcohol gel every time I return to a safe, personal space such as van or house. I try not to use baskets or trolleys favouring regular visits in very v quiet times using a single, Aldi durable plastic bag. I load it up then use self checkout to unload and scan. Then I reload the bag and leave. If I need a big shop I use my bags to pay the trolley and never touch it with bare hands. I then don't handle the bags when emptied for a couple of days. I wash and hand sanitize hands a lot.

Basically I'm using a range of sources of advice and information than making my own rules up because it's my health and the health of family that I'm protecting.

So individual responsibility has always been guiding my actions.

Carlton green
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Re: Do we need to take individual responsibility for Covid prevention measures?

Postby Carlton green » 21 Jun 2020, 7:29pm

Cunobelin wrote:Given the current fiascos with Track and Trace and the previous debacles with PPPE and testing, the Government record is hardly good

Now we have the inconsistency over whether we will bring the 2m rule down to 1 m or 1m Plus, with no consistency, guidance or scientific evidence to support.

We also have Priti Patel spouting the disproven "Immunity Passports" and Hancock wanting electronic registration to use a pub.

Finally we have the return to school in September, again with no real guidance, evidence or support.



Have we now reached the stage where we need to make our own minds up, decide on our own whether we lower the 2 m rule, or decide for ourselves whether pubs or schools are safe?

Will you be following Government advice and guidelines, or deciding on your own level of prevention?


I suspect that you have or had some involvement with medical matters some wonder what your own view on this is.

My view is that the Government has made some mistakes but overall done as good a job if not better than anyone else in power would have managed. I’m somewhat upset at the slow start we had to the lockdown and the refusal to close schools and borders earlier than we did. Had swifter action been taken the damage done to the country would have been less. Currently the Government is under political and economic pressure to back off from current restrictions and not take as much notice of public health concerns, to be fair they are between a rock and a hard place.

I do feel that people should take personal responsibility for being as well informed as is reasonable and in adhering to the best advice possible. However if your employer doesn’t care whether you catch the virus or not and you have to use public transport you’re in a difficult situation. Likewise when those in the streets and shops ignore infection protection measures.

Mrs CG and I are taking practical measures to stop any infection reaching us and I think that others should similarly take responsibility for their own well being, but many are (to my mind) stupid so will do as they chose regardless of anything else. Except with proper care and social distancing I will not be attending events and gatherings of any sort, I minimise social contact to that which is necessary, and I will be using higher levels of care than the Government relaxes to.
Last edited by Carlton green on 21 Jun 2020, 7:36pm, edited 1 time in total.

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[XAP]Bob
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Re: Do we need to take individual responsibility for Covid prevention measures?

Postby [XAP]Bob » 21 Jun 2020, 7:33pm

Cunobelin wrote:Given the current fiascos with Track and Trace and the previous debacles with PPPE and testing, the Government record is hardly good

Now we have the inconsistency over whether we will bring the 2m rule down to 1 m or 1m Plus, with no consistency, guidance or scientific evidence to support.

We also have Priti Patel spouting the disproven "Immunity Passports" and Hancock wanting electronic registration to use a pub.

Finally we have the return to school in September, again with no real guidance, evidence or support.



Have we now reached the stage where we need to make our own minds up, decide on our own whether we lower the 2 m rule, or decide for ourselves whether pubs or schools are safe?

Will you be following Government advice and guidelines, or deciding on your own level of prevention?


Started shielding before the government had come up with the concept, haven’t stopped yet.

I am in the fortunate position of knowing one of the consultants who puts together the government advice. What they submit on a Thursday often bears no resemblance to what is announced on the Friday.

When the medical advice changes, then also will my behaviour.

I have, of course, been taking personal judgements
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Paulatic
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Re: Do we need to take individual responsibility for Covid prevention measures?

Postby Paulatic » 21 Jun 2020, 7:37pm

I thought everyone started using their own version of precautions after Cummings went to Barnard Castle.
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merseymouth
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Re: Do we need to take individual responsibility for Covid prevention measures?

Postby merseymouth » 21 Jun 2020, 7:44pm

Hi Paulactic, Spot on about Cummings! But throw in the "Baby Shower" by Carrie and her dozen chums at Chequers you will see that the rules only apply to fools who choose to apply sensible measures :o :shock: :lol: . MM

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Cunobelin
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Re: Do we need to take individual responsibility for Covid prevention measures?

Postby Cunobelin » 21 Jun 2020, 7:54pm

Carlton green wrote:
I suspect that you have or had some involvement with medical matters some wonder what your own view on this is.


I have my own opinions but would like the thread to develop independently of them at this stage

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[XAP]Bob
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Re: Do we need to take individual responsibility for Covid prevention measures?

Postby [XAP]Bob » 21 Jun 2020, 7:58pm

Carlton green wrote:
I suspect that you have or had some involvement with medical matters some wonder what your own view on this is.

My view is that the Government has made some mistakes but overall done as good a job if not better than anyone else in power would have managed. I’m somewhat upset at the slow start we had to the lockdown and the refusal to close schools and borders earlier than we did. Had swifter action been taken the damage done to the country would have been less. Currently the Government is under political and economic pressure to back off from current restrictions and not take as much notice of public health concerns, to be fair they are between a rock and a hard place.



The rock and hard place are of their own making.

The lack of action up front is the critical failure in any event with a predicted exponential spread (as all disease spread is).

Australia is somewhat better positioned to implement a quarantine, but the UK gov made no effort at all. Presumably the want to reduce the burden of pensions and reduce the burden on their freshly privatised health service.
Australia are nearly open again, still with some distancing in place, along with NZ and associated Pacific islands.

The woeful lack of testing is a massively understating the spread in the UK, and that is feeding bad decisions.
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.

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Re: Do we need to take individual responsibility for Covid prevention measures?

Postby mjr » 21 Jun 2020, 8:34pm

I'm following the WHO in general. I do try to keep 2m, groups of at most 6 and so on but more to try to reduce agro. There's enough stress around at the moment without picking fights that don't really matter.
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roubaixtuesday
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Re: Do we need to take individual responsibility for Covid prevention measures?

Postby roubaixtuesday » 21 Jun 2020, 8:43pm

You cannot protect yourself; your risk level is directly related to whatever everybody else does.

Libertarian philosophy fails with pandemics.

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Re: Do we need to take individual responsibility for Covid prevention measures?

Postby roubaixtuesday » 21 Jun 2020, 8:46pm

Carlton green wrote:
My view is that the Government has made some mistakes but overall done as good a job if not better than anyone else in power would have managed.


Objectively, based on death rate, the government has done worse than any other developed nation. Despite having more time than many others.

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gaz
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Re: Do we need to take individual responsibility for Covid prevention measures?

Postby gaz » 21 Jun 2020, 11:10pm

The problem of making your own decisions on distancing is other people making theirs. It takes two to distance-tango.

This problem exists regardless of guidance, it escalates when the guidance is 'relaxed'.
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Carlton green
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Re: Do we need to take individual responsibility for Covid prevention measures?

Postby Carlton green » 21 Jun 2020, 11:18pm

roubaixtuesday wrote:
Carlton green wrote:
My view is that the Government has made some mistakes but overall done as good a job if not better than anyone else in power would have managed.


Objectively, based on death rate, the government has done worse than any other developed nation. Despite having more time than many others.


Objectively it’s very hard to fairly judge based on the data available. The international data available is questionable in its accuracy and does not necessarily record events in a comparable way to other countries. As they say: ‘there are liars, dam liars and statisticians‘. The UK’s population density is also different (much higher and hence more transmission paths per head of population) from other countries and adherence to Government instructions has been variable here and better in some other places. I wouldn’t dispute that things could have been better - with hindsight someone will always be happy to say how things could have been done better - and that Boris was too reluctant to suspend civil liberties and business activities. IMHO the shut down should have been phased in two weeks earlier and mass sport and social gatherings stoped straight away.