Which group is the worst? Is that fair?

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Tangled Metal
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Which group is the worst? Is that fair?

Postby Tangled Metal » 27 Jun 2020, 9:41pm

I've noticed there's been threads over the years where X group on mixed use paths are worse than y group. Or simply complaining about one group because one of that group due something wrong and annoyed them. Is that a fair POV considering it's almost always a minority of miscreants that gets noticed and condemns the rest or majority who cause very little problems.

I ask because motorists are often quick to condemn cyclists and cyclists are often quick to be condemn others. We don't like being lumped as the same as people on bikes causing the problems is it right we do that to other groups?

As someone who fits into so many different groups that are often complaining about each other I can see all sides. I also find those moaning threads about what the other group did to annoy them more than a little unhelpful and tedious. What is the point? Why can't you be satisfied with venting to your partner, family friends and keep the forum more friendly?

Mike Sales
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Re: Which group is the worst? Is that fair?

Postby Mike Sales » 27 Jun 2020, 9:45pm

It often seems to work that way with people of different ethnic groups.

Cyril Haearn
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Re: Which group is the worst? Is that fair?

Postby Cyril Haearn » 27 Jun 2020, 9:49pm

The more powerful, dangerous groups are worst
Mortons endanger cyclists and walkers
Cyclists endanger walkers
Walkers endanger no-one
Entertainer, intellectual, idealist, PoB
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Ellieb
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Re: Which group is the worst? Is that fair?

Postby Ellieb » 27 Jun 2020, 10:26pm

Plenty of cyclists have been injured after colliding with pedestrians....
I agree that stereotyping is a problem, but it doesn’t mean that all groups are equal. However, I personally divide road users into those who are considerate, careful & attentive to what they are doing & those who aren’t. There are examples of both types contained within each group.

Tangled Metal
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Re: Which group is the worst? Is that fair?

Postby Tangled Metal » 27 Jun 2020, 11:44pm

Cyril Haearn wrote:The more powerful, dangerous groups are worst
Mortons endanger cyclists and walkers
Cyclists endanger walkers
Walkers endanger no-one

Cyclists endanger horses!!!

Reference the sportive where at least one cyclist close passed a horse and rider causing injury to rider. Loads of online discussions about this on cycling forums including many people victim blaming.

Tangled Metal
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Re: Which group is the worst? Is that fair?

Postby Tangled Metal » 27 Jun 2020, 11:52pm

But is it fair to condemn all for minority of miscreants among each group?

Cyclists often get criticised by motorists and media for the minority. We rightfully discuss how unfair that is on this forum. Then often the same participants carry out a similar hatchet job on others. They do it to us, shall we do it to them? Could one group rise up from the gutter and not perpetuate this othering and unfair criticism of the whole for the actions of a minority? Take the moral high ground perhaps?

Oldjohnw
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Re: Which group is the worst? Is that fair?

Postby Oldjohnw » 28 Jun 2020, 3:53am

I've been knocked over by a wheeled form of transport only once in over 70 years. It was bike at speed on Skiddaw. I narrowly avoided falling several hundred feet. At that moment in time in terms of being a danger to others, cyclists were well in the lead.

Fortunately, I was able to separate out the single experience from the general. Nevertheless, it proved to me that I need to exercise demonising whole groups for the sins of the few with great care.
John

Cyril Haearn
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Re: Which group is the worst? Is that fair?

Postby Cyril Haearn » 28 Jun 2020, 4:07am

Tangled Metal wrote:But is it fair to condemn all for minority of miscreants among each group?
..

Minority? Nearly all motorists ignore STOP signs
Entertainer, intellectual, idealist, PoB
Cycling-of course, but it is far better on a Gillott
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Oldjohnw
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Re: Which group is the worst? Is that fair?

Postby Oldjohnw » 28 Jun 2020, 6:40am

Cyril Haearn wrote:
Tangled Metal wrote:But is it fair to condemn all for minority of miscreants among each group?
..

Minority? Nearly all motorists ignore STOP signs


You have some empirical evidence?
John

Cyril Haearn
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Re: Which group is the worst? Is that fair?

Postby Cyril Haearn » 28 Jun 2020, 7:51am

Oldjohnw wrote:
Cyril Haearn wrote:
Tangled Metal wrote:But is it fair to condemn all for minority of miscreants among each group?
..

Minority? Nearly all motorists ignore STOP signs


You have some empirical evidence?

Yes, I have often observed this
A very easy crime to detect, no equipment needed. The cops could punish thousands of these criminals, as easily as picking up rotten fruit from the ground
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merseymouth
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Re: Which group is the worst? Is that fair?

Postby merseymouth » 28 Jun 2020, 7:57am

Oh No, Here we go again? Have you got empirical evidence!
The fact that little effort is made to obtain data over disobedience on the road, we all see umpteen examples as we go about our lives.
If we had many more evidencial cameras, with that garnered material being applied to prosecuting all offenders then life would be better for us all.
As I walk into the city centre I see numerous drivers fail to stop at their stop-line, into the Advanced Cyclist Stop area, indeed many who even fail to make that? Some keep on moving through, others stop and block the pedestrian cross area!
Yes, I see plenty of muppets on bikes do the same, so Pot and Kettle applies.
So the evidence is out there, just no effort is made to gather it and for it to be used to improve the safety of all.
So lay off the demands for evidencial box-ticking! MM

Cyril Haearn
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Re: Which group is the worst? Is that fair?

Postby Cyril Haearn » 28 Jun 2020, 8:08am

Right again MM. It is a bit simpler than trying to prove that drugs work, for example :?
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Oldjohnw
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Re: Which group is the worst? Is that fair?

Postby Oldjohnw » 28 Jun 2020, 8:17am

Who need evidence, MM and Cyril, when you can make stuff up or base it on one person's limited experience?

You're in Trumpland, I fear.
John

Cyril Haearn
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Re: Which group is the worst? Is that fair?

Postby Cyril Haearn » 28 Jun 2020, 8:19am

Oldjohnw wrote:Who need evidence, MM and Cyril, when you can make stuff up or base it on one person's limited experience?

You're in Trumpland, I fear.

Not made up at all, very easy to check
Suggest you observe traffic at a STOP sign before commenting further, simples

Anyone who observes a driver stopping and applying the handbrake before proceeding could win a small prize :?
Entertainer, intellectual, idealist, PoB
Cycling-of course, but it is far better on a Gillott
We love safety cameras, we hate bullies

Oldjohnw
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Location: Northumberland

Re: Which group is the worst? Is that fair?

Postby Oldjohnw » 28 Jun 2020, 8:22am

And of course if ever we need a vaccine for something horrible, stuff evidence. Just drink bleach. I heard it works.

Evidence is obviously overrated.

Btw I was not denying what Cyril claimed. I just asked if he had empirical evidence. It really as good idea to read posts properly.

And I and all I know stop at signs. My brake goes on automatically: I have no handbrake. So I claim my prize.
Last edited by Oldjohnw on 28 Jun 2020, 8:25am, edited 2 times in total.
John