Which group is the worst? Is that fair?

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Cyril Haearn
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Location: Between the woods and the water

Re: Which group is the worst? Is that fair?

Postby Cyril Haearn » 28 Jun 2020, 8:31pm

ossie wrote:
Cyril Haearn wrote:I am proud to report having been followed home and briefly questioned by Sergeant West and Constable Mercia, after they observed that I was driving unusually slowly :wink:
Does that count as a traffic offence?


It does actually. :wink:

Driving without reasonable consideration for other road users.....that aside they were probably more concerned 1. For your welfare or 2. You weren't drunk.

The same happened to my mum, twice - she still holds it against the local constabulary as some kind of infringement on her civil liberty.

Minumum speed limits are rare, there was none here
I am proud of it of course, just a few words, they realised I was not drunk
The last bit home after a long day, spotted a BX too close behind so I slowed down, turned off, cops must have been behind the BX, they followed me home
Entertainer, intellectual, idealist, PoB
Cycling-of course, but it is far better on a Gillott
We love safety cameras, we hate bullies

Tangled Metal
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Joined: 13 Feb 2015, 8:32pm

Re: Which group is the worst? Is that fair?

Postby Tangled Metal » 28 Jun 2020, 9:05pm

francovendee wrote:Bring on reliable, safe self driving cars. Stopping or not at lights would be no longer be an option.
I'm not sure how to stop cyclists doing the same thing though.

Bring on reliable self riding bikes, if you follow me. Make one moden of transport safer you'll show the others up more. I really don't know the answer to it all but self driving cars could be part of it. Perhaps self reporting cars and cycles too if that was ever possible. Imagine every illegal action on the highways when in control of any mode of transport us reported and subject to the applicable sanction without loopholes. Would Cyril still set off early at lights if it eventually results in fines even if points can't be applied. Although it would be good to see motorists and cyclists who regularly jump red lights end up in their fourth offence losing the right to drive or cycle. Need a lot of development of the legal system and technology to achieve automatic prosecution.

Tangled Metal
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Re: Which group is the worst? Is that fair?

Postby Tangled Metal » 28 Jun 2020, 9:14pm

Anyway all this talk about one group being worse than another simply proves what I suspect. Prejudice and hate works too strongly on special interest forums and other online comment sections. As a member of a subgroup of society every such forum breeds it's contempt of others.

Which leads back to my second question. Is that fair? Is it fair to other people who don't do or think like you? Is it fair to take the actions of a minority and say they represent the whole of that group? Is it fair to say something is true when you have no evidence but your prejudice and hated? I said hatred because I see hatred. It's there whether you accept it or not.

So can anyone here look and say with full understanding of themselves that they are fair with the others? If anyone says one group is worse than others I suspect they are not being fair? Understanding isn't a part mob mentality I think. Had I better get my pitchforks and torches in line with the majority or is that minority? Are mobs the majority or minority online these days?

Tangled Metal
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Joined: 13 Feb 2015, 8:32pm

Re: Which group is the worst? Is that fair?

Postby Tangled Metal » 28 Jun 2020, 9:25pm

BTW if anyone has a good memory that will have heard the story of my local, staggered road crossing with a set of double lights. The one where mothers have yanked kids from under the wheels of cars ignoring the lights. Well as the most dangerous aspect of that junction I've obviously complained about RLJing motorists, but the reality of that junction I've not mentioned was that cyclists actually rarely stop when crossing them in one direction. The other direction is more dangerous so they always stop there but the direction that's most dangerous for pedestrians crossing is the side of the main road where cyclists almost never stop for the red lights. They treat it like pedestrian crossings where the red lights dying always apply to them.

However, I still don't say all cyclists jump red lights because of this one junction where it's very common. I don't say all motorists jump that red light. In fact I don't blame motorists I blame the planners who allowed the supermarket to be built with that entrance resulting in those lights. I often think that planners can't plan a good junction for all users I'm this country. They can design acceptable but often design dangerous. When they do so they try to apply easy changes to reduce the implications of their bad design. Personally I believe bad designs should be prevented or completely rebuilt when realised.

Anyway, I'm digressing from topic now.

Bonefishblues
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Location: Near Bicester Oxon

Re: Which group is the worst? Is that fair?

Postby Bonefishblues » 28 Jun 2020, 9:53pm

Tangled Metal wrote:Anyway all this talk about one group being worse than another simply proves what I suspect. Prejudice and hate works too strongly on special interest forums and other online comment sections. As a member of a subgroup of society every such forum breeds it's contempt of others.

Which leads back to my second question. Is that fair? Is it fair to other people who don't do or think like you? Is it fair to take the actions of a minority and say they represent the whole of that group? Is it fair to say something is true when you have no evidence but your prejudice and hated? I said hatred because I see hatred. It's there whether you accept it or not.

So can anyone here look and say with full understanding of themselves that they are fair with the others? If anyone says one group is worse than others I suspect they are not being fair? Understanding isn't a part mob mentality I think. Had I better get my pitchforks and torches in line with the majority or is that minority? Are mobs the majority or minority online these days?

An earlier exchange on this thread perhaps illustrates this syndrome.

Vorpal
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Re: Which group is the worst? Is that fair?

Postby Vorpal » 28 Jun 2020, 10:26pm

Why does one group have to be worse than others :?:

If it matters, I think cyclists tend to be a bit more tolerant than most.

The other thing about road use is that frustrating circumstances tend to bring out the worst in people. And slow, queuing traffic can be frustrating for someone sat in a car.
“In some ways, it is easier to be a dissident, for then one is without responsibility.”
― Nelson Mandela, Long Walk to Freedom

Bonefishblues
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Location: Near Bicester Oxon

Re: Which group is the worst? Is that fair?

Postby Bonefishblues » 28 Jun 2020, 10:35pm

Imagine enjoying both driving and cycling, and also canoeing and fishing, and being a member of forums devoted to each.

That gives an insight into different groups' perspectives on each other! And by and large they're not as stereotyped.

millimole
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Location: Leicester

Re: Which group is the worst? Is that fair?

Postby millimole » 29 Jun 2020, 8:05am

Bonefishblues wrote:Imagine enjoying both driving and cycling, and also canoeing and fishing, and being a member of forums devoted to each.

That gives an insight into different groups' perspectives on each other! And by and large they're not as stereotyped.
Quite.
I volunteer on the local canal where the walkers hate the cyclists who hate the joggers who hate the dog-walkers who hate the anglers who hate the boaters who hate the waterway staff who hate the contractors who hate the walkers.
And so on in every combination.

Every group has its own saints & sinners and no group is as conceived from the outside.
Leicester; Riding my Hetchins since 1971; Audaxing on my Dawes; Riding to work on a Decathlon Hoprider

Oldjohnw
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Location: Northumberland

Re: Which group is the worst? Is that fair?

Postby Oldjohnw » 29 Jun 2020, 8:13am

Reading through the posts here it is quite clear that the worst group is always the one I'm not in at the moment.
John

Bonefishblues
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Location: Near Bicester Oxon

Re: Which group is the worst? Is that fair?

Postby Bonefishblues » 29 Jun 2020, 8:17am

Oldjohnw wrote:Reading through the posts here it is quite clear that the worst group is always the one I'm not in at the moment.

Not always convinced of that, tbh :?

Oldjohnw
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Location: Northumberland

Re: Which group is the worst? Is that fair?

Postby Oldjohnw » 29 Jun 2020, 8:48am

Bonefishblues wrote:
Oldjohnw wrote:Reading through the posts here it is quite clear that the worst group is always the one I'm not in at the moment.

Not always convinced of that, tbh :?



'fraid it might be hyperbole on my part! :?
John

Cyril Haearn
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Location: Between the woods and the water

Re: Which group is the worst? Is that fair?

Postby Cyril Haearn » 29 Jun 2020, 9:01am

millimole wrote:
Bonefishblues wrote:Imagine enjoying both driving and cycling, and also canoeing and fishing, and being a member of forums devoted to each.

That gives an insight into different groups' perspectives on each other! And by and large they're not as stereotyped.
Quite.
I volunteer on the local canal where the walkers hate the cyclists who hate the joggers who hate the dog-walkers who hate the anglers who hate the boaters who hate the waterway staff who hate the contractors who hate the walkers.
And so on in every combination.

Every group has its own saints & sinners and no group is as conceived from the outside.

I despise those who break the rules and endanger others
Entertainer, intellectual, idealist, PoB
Cycling-of course, but it is far better on a Gillott
We love safety cameras, we hate bullies

merseymouth
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Joined: 23 Jan 2011, 11:16am

Re: Which group is the worst? Is that fair?

Postby merseymouth » 29 Jun 2020, 9:37am

Quite correct Cyril, bang on the money!
I make a point of trying to correct the practises of errant road-users of all types, managed to avoid the nut house so far?
But I work on the principle that it needs a well balanced cyclist to live a safe & proper life, to wit "A Tricyclist" :D :roll: :lol: MM

Tangled Metal
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Joined: 13 Feb 2015, 8:32pm

Re: Which group is the worst? Is that fair?

Postby Tangled Metal » 29 Jun 2020, 10:21am

Having been a whitewater kayakers who's been subjected to abuse by anglers I fully accept it's a minority. The fact I can give plenty of examples of criminal occasions such as brick through a hugely expensive carbon fibre slalom kayak destroying it. Or the grandad accompanied by his son and grandson who read shouting abuse and threatening violence in such an aggressive way the 5 year old lad was hiding from him behind his dad's legs. Or the members of local sporting club with fishing rights on the river lune who stretched strong fishing line across the river with fishing hooks falling from them at tower height to catch and harm rowers on the river. Right where uni club and john o gaunt club rowed according to longstanding agreement with rights owners. Btw the John o gaunt club is among the longest running in the country.

Despite all that I've never believed they were much more than the minority among practitioners of their sport. Most anglers and kayakers I have encountered reach access agreements and stick to them. They wait for anglers to advise where to pass or to bring their lines in. Kayakers pass anglers quickly and quietly IME . All cooperate except the rare minority.

I believe that's the same for most miscreants in all hobby or sports or transport groups. Yet forums rarely paint that picture. It's them and us. It's been in this thread despite everyone claiming they're being fair. Is this human nature?