Back to work?

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pete75
Posts: 13083
Joined: 24 Jul 2007, 2:37pm

Back to work?

Postby pete75 » 19 Jul 2020, 1:12pm

The government appears to want most of the people working from home as a result of C19 to go back into the workplace. Why? If employees have been doing their jobs just as effectively from home they should continue to do so.It's good for the environment reducing pollution and congestion on the roads as well as making them safer for those who do need to travel. It's good for public transport in that fewer buses, trains etc will be required for rush hour and then stay unused until the next rush hour - commuter services often run at a loss. It's good for the employees because they won't be wasting time on unnecessary travel. It's good for employers as they'll be able to reduce the amount they may be spending on expensive office accommodation.

Marcus Aurelius
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Re: Back to work?

Postby Marcus Aurelius » 19 Jul 2020, 1:26pm

pete75 wrote:The government appears to want most of the people working from home as a result of C19 to go back into the workplace. Why? If employees have been doing their jobs just as effectively from home they should continue to do so.It's good for the environment reducing pollution and congestion on the roads as well as making them safer for those who do need to travel. It's good for public transport in that fewer buses, trains etc will be required for rush hour and then stay unused until the next rush hour - commuter services often run at a loss. It's good for the employees because they won't be wasting time on unnecessary travel. It's good for employers as they'll be able to reduce the amount they may be spending on expensive office accommodation.

It’s because a lot of the ‘symbiotic’ businesses are suffering. If there’s no one in the offices, there’s no one patronising the cafes / eateries / bars, at lunchtime. I was up in Spitalfields in London last week, I’ve never seen the food stalls / businesses in the market, and the bars around there, so quiet. They really are suffering.

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[XAP]Bob
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Re: Back to work?

Postby [XAP]Bob » 19 Jul 2020, 1:40pm

The economy can not be allowed to evolve, it must return to the previous method of operation and grow at eleventy billion percent a day.
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
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pete75
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Re: Back to work?

Postby pete75 » 19 Jul 2020, 2:04pm

Marcus Aurelius wrote:
pete75 wrote:The government appears to want most of the people working from home as a result of C19 to go back into the workplace. Why? If employees have been doing their jobs just as effectively from home they should continue to do so.It's good for the environment reducing pollution and congestion on the roads as well as making them safer for those who do need to travel. It's good for public transport in that fewer buses, trains etc will be required for rush hour and then stay unused until the next rush hour - commuter services often run at a loss. It's good for the employees because they won't be wasting time on unnecessary travel. It's good for employers as they'll be able to reduce the amount they may be spending on expensive office accommodation.

It’s because a lot of the ‘symbiotic’ businesses are suffering. If there’s no one in the offices, there’s no one patronising the cafes / eateries / bars, at lunchtime. I was up in Spitalfields in London last week, I’ve never seen the food stalls / businesses in the market, and the bars around there, so quiet. They really are suffering.


Yes I've heard that. Things change and evolve though. People will spend the money they're not spending in those places elsewhere though so it will help other, perhaps more useful, businesses.

Cowsham
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Joined: 4 Nov 2019, 1:33pm

Re: Back to work?

Postby Cowsham » 19 Jul 2020, 2:25pm

We never left work -- we just made the SD provisions at huge cost and got on with it.

Get back to work.

Lakelander
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Joined: 22 Jun 2020, 3:16am

Re: Back to work?

Postby Lakelander » 19 Jul 2020, 3:00pm

We never left work either.
They just put up some token signage and we carried on as usual :roll:
As usual there’s a London bias behind the Govts advice.

Marcus Aurelius
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Joined: 1 Feb 2018, 10:20am

Re: Back to work?

Postby Marcus Aurelius » 19 Jul 2020, 3:23pm

Cowsham wrote:We never left work -- we just made the SD provisions at huge cost and got on with it.

Get back to work.


True. I’ve been flat out busy the entire time. The increase in teams / Zoom et.al. has ensured I’ve been mad busy. The government funded holiday for lots of people is over, get back to work.

Cyril Haearn
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Re: Back to work?

Postby Cyril Haearn » 19 Jul 2020, 3:41pm

Right again Pete, cafes and restaurants can close down, people can eat better and cheaper at home, prepare their own food, take sandwiches
Fewer trains and buses should be needed too
..
Dunno what I should have thought were I not retired. This cv Madness should have pushed me into retirement :wink:
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Tangled Metal
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Re: Back to work?

Postby Tangled Metal » 19 Jul 2020, 5:25pm

People's custom will move to other businesses from those smaller eateries but where to? Working from home you'll probably make your own lunch which means food bought from supermarkets I guess. Aren't they doing just nicely anyway?

Part of me thinks it's better to give your custom to the little places than the large supermarket businesses. Of course the commuting aspect I'm not keen on. It's a shame people can't live near their work. Most do at our place. Directors walk in, people cycle 10 minutes into work others come out of their house and take a couple of turns and get to work. I'm the long distance commuter along with a young lad having to travel 7 miles by bike or 10 by car.

Personally I'd love to be at work. Our workplace was almost designed for social distancing. Very few workstations have people working within 3m of each other. Those jobs that occasionally meant two people close together could work just as well with separation into two stations. Offices had most desks 2m apart at least except two sets of 2 people. That could be sorted though.

Canteen needed closing and going forward one person making all drinks then putting them on a table outside for people to collect while distancing. Toilets they took handles off and there's a foot hook instead. One at a time allowed in.

Our only issue, which meant most people were furloughed, was that most be of our work us for 1st tier automotive companies. They stopped ordering because OEMs were shutdown. Plus nobody buys new cars in times like these. So we're in the unusual position of the virus having virtually no affect on our ability to safely work. We have no or very little work because further up the supply chain the implications for working with the virus is more difficult.

This furlough I've found to be a stressful time. People who aren't affected by this furlough situation, such as the retired, probably don't see that it's not a holiday but a situation probably all affected want to end. Not sure about those public sector workers who weren't furloughed but sent home on full pay, they might not want that to end. Not least because the rule changes with furlough system is changing but they're not on furlough so aren't affected. We know a few in that situation.

pete75
Posts: 13083
Joined: 24 Jul 2007, 2:37pm

Re: Back to work?

Postby pete75 » 19 Jul 2020, 6:13pm

Marcus Aurelius wrote:
Cowsham wrote:We never left work -- we just made the SD provisions at huge cost and got on with it.

Get back to work.


True. I’ve been flat out busy the entire time. The increase in teams / Zoom et.al. has ensured I’ve been mad busy. The government funded holiday for lots of people is over, get back to work.

You're missing the point. Lots of people started working from home instead of commuting into the office. There are calls form the government and others that they should start going back into the office. My point was that where people worked just as effectively from home it may well bring a lot of benefits if they carried on doing so.
Nobody has had a government holiday - it's taxpayer funded.

pete75
Posts: 13083
Joined: 24 Jul 2007, 2:37pm

Re: Back to work?

Postby pete75 » 19 Jul 2020, 6:20pm

Tangled Metal wrote:People's custom will move to other businesses from those smaller eateries but where to? Working from home you'll probably make your own lunch which means food bought from supermarkets I guess. Aren't they doing just nicely anyway?

Part of me thinks it's better to give your custom to the little places than the large supermarket businesses. Of course the commuting aspect I'm not keen on. It's a shame people can't live near their work. Most do at our place. Directors walk in, people cycle 10 minutes into work others come out of their house and take a couple of turns and get to work. I'm the long distance commuter along with a young lad having to travel 7 miles by bike or 10 by car.

Personally I'd love to be at work. Our workplace was almost designed for social distancing. Very few workstations have people working within 3m of each other. Those jobs that occasionally meant two people close together could work just as well with separation into two stations. Offices had most desks 2m apart at least except two sets of 2 people. That could be sorted though.

Canteen needed closing and going forward one person making all drinks then putting them on a table outside for people to collect while distancing. Toilets they took handles off and there's a foot hook instead. One at a time allowed in.

Our only issue, which meant most people were furloughed, was that most be of our work us for 1st tier automotive companies. They stopped ordering because OEMs were shutdown. Plus nobody buys new cars in times like these. So we're in the unusual position of the virus having virtually no affect on our ability to safely work. We have no or very little work because further up the supply chain the implications for working with the virus is more difficult.

This furlough I've found to be a stressful time. People who aren't affected by this furlough situation, such as the retired, probably don't see that it's not a holiday but a situation probably all affected want to end. Not sure about those public sector workers who weren't furloughed but sent home on full pay, they might not want that to end. Not least because the rule changes with furlough system is changing but they're not on furlough so aren't affected. We know a few in that situation.

Isn't that being furloughed? It's not just public sector employers who are choosing to make up the 80% to full pay. My wife has a small business and furloughed two of her staff. She pays them both full salary and would have done so even without the 80% subsidy.

Tangled Metal
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Re: Back to work?

Postby Tangled Metal » 19 Jul 2020, 9:57pm

The furlough scheme was where the government paid 80% of the employee's pay in order to prevent the employer from having to terminate employment I thought. What the public sector employees had was 100% of their pay paid for out of the public purse if you lost without any of the paperwork, applications or other work with the associated cost of the employer. It does not have any additional governmental or legislative input but is tantamount to sending them home on full pay. If only the government paid everyone who could not go to work either at their place of employment or at home in the same way.

IMHO fairness would have seen all public sector employees getting treated as private sector employees through the same furlough pay off 80% and the following scale back too.

If you cannot see a difference you're possibly not looking.

As to companies supplementing the furlough scheme to make up the missing 20% well that's great but it's not what's likely happening in most companies. No evidence but it would be interesting to see the figures on proportion of private sector employees who made the shortfall up for furloughed employees. I personally don't know anyone furloughed and getting their pay made up to 100%.
Last edited by Tangled Metal on 20 Jul 2020, 10:39pm, edited 1 time in total.

Cowsham
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Joined: 4 Nov 2019, 1:33pm

Re: Back to work?

Postby Cowsham » 19 Jul 2020, 11:13pm

pete75 wrote:
Marcus Aurelius wrote:
Cowsham wrote:We never left work -- we just made the SD provisions at huge cost and got on with it.

Get back to work.


True. I’ve been flat out busy the entire time. The increase in teams / Zoom et.al. has ensured I’ve been mad busy. The government funded holiday for lots of people is over, get back to work.

You're missing the point. Lots of people started working from home instead of commuting into the office. There are calls form the government and others that they should start going back into the office. My point was that where people worked just as effectively from home it may well bring a lot of benefits if they carried on doing so.
Nobody has had a government holiday - it's taxpayer funded.


Yeah a know -- and guess who are the tax payers -- yes people like me who are still at and never left work. Our work has been affected too and has left us having to lower production so even though we didn't get a holiday and had to work harder to ensure our safety we still have uncertain futures because of people that won't.

Cowsham
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Joined: 4 Nov 2019, 1:33pm

Re: Back to work?

Postby Cowsham » 19 Jul 2020, 11:22pm

My poor brother got nothing and also had no work -- why ? Cos he's self employed and has to plough every penny back into the business to keep his head above water his profit is rubbish so he gets buqqer all.

pete75
Posts: 13083
Joined: 24 Jul 2007, 2:37pm

Re: Back to work?

Postby pete75 » 19 Jul 2020, 11:36pm

Tangled Metal wrote:The furlough scheme was where the government paid 80% of the employee's pay in order to prevent the employer from having to terminate employment I thought. What the public sector employees had was 100% of their pay paid for out of the public purse if you lost without any of the paperwork, applications or other work with the associated cost of the employer. It does not have any additional governmental or legislative input but is tantamount to sending them bike on full pay. If only the government paid everyone who could not go to work either at their place of employment or at home in the same way.

IMHO fairness would have seen all public sector employees getting treated as private sector employees through the same furlough pay off 80% and the following scale back too.

If you cannot see a difference you're possibly not looking.

As to companies supplementing the furlough scheme to make up the missing 20% well that's great but it's not what's likely happening in most companies. No evidence but it would be interesting to see the figures on proportion of private sector employees who made the shortfall up for girlfriend furloughed employees. I personally don't know anyone furloughed and getting their pay made up to 100%.


I do.
What the hell are girlfriend furloughed employees?