Sea cruises: Why? Why not?

[kwackers]

Perhaps a TV drama series following events in a totally environmentally friendly society might make people think. Sailing ships, insulated homes, bicycles, plastic packaging free, no aeroplanes, ...

It's one of those myths that environmental deniers seem to try to push. The idea that an environmentally friendly society is one where almost nothing is allowed.
It's simply not true.

What is true is that things will be more expensive simply because your purchase will include the cost of environmentally friendly disposal / recycling.
But does anyone genuinely think that the cost of an item shouldn't include the cost of its disposal? If so I'd be interested in hearing on what grounds.

The reality is that you can do an awful lot with almost no change to the way we live now and an awful lot more with minimal impact.

[francovendee]

In truth it's never going to happen.

[kwackers]

In truth it's never going to happen.

There are 3 possible outcomes.

1. It happens.
2. It doesn't happen and humanity descends into chaos as we drown in our own filth and run out of resources.
3. The population crashes enough to make it easy to support the remaining people even with a throwaway culture (although this could be a side effect of 2).

I foresee a society that alternates between 1 & 2, balancing on a knife edge.
Mainly because that seems to be the way we've always played it.

[francovendee]

Of the three possibilities I suspect no 3 is the most likely.

[Mike_Ayling]

Long before the Ruby Princess in Sydney covid outbreak there were fairly regular gastro outbreaks reported on cruise ships.

Mike

And schools, and places of work and - in fact pretty much anywhere people congregate.
Having been on ships I'd warrant they make more effort to prevent such things than your typical place of work.

Unlike schools and places of work you can't just go home half way through a sea cruise!

Mike

[kwackers]

Unlike schools and places of work you can't just go home half way through a sea cruise!

Mike

Actually you can.
They either dump you off the ship or keep you on but in isolation. In rare cases they'll take you off in a helicopter.
Good insurance is a must (like any holiday really - do you think they'll let you on a plane if you're running a temperature? )

[mumbojumbo]

[quote][/
Speculative? Really?

The majority of goods coming into this country through the docks aren't food.
Those huge container ships aren't full of food.
The Chinese don't export millions of tons of food every year.
Take a look around the clothes shops, DIY shops, garden centres, car and motorcycle dealers, bicycle shops - in fact almost anywhere.
The majority of the stuff in them is imported and a lot of it doesn't need to be, either because it's not really needed and destined for landfill or it could be made over here.

How can you claim I'm being judgemental when you're criticising other people for taking cruises but apparently not for importing stuff they don't need?
As I said: "I don't see that as any worse or better than having the occasional holiday on one."quote]

Again no statistics.The people woukd claim they need imports of basics like socks,pants etc.--perhaps you have no need but in Sheffield we are quite conventional.I think I was criticuising the operators of cruises rather than the customers with whom I sympathise.Must be dreadful to be so confined.

[kwackers]

Again no statistics.The people woukd claim they need imports of basics like socks,pants etc.--perhaps you have no need but in Sheffield we are quite conventional.I think I was criticuising the operators of cruises rather than the customers with whom I sympathise.Must be dreadful to be so confined.

We can make socks & pants over here. We as consumers would simply prefer other folk to make them cheaper for us.

Not sure why you're sympathising with the customers since you appear to have no empathy with them.
Can't say I've ever noticed any of them looking 'confined', rather they all seem to be enjoying themselves. Hard to do anyway on a cruise ship because they're moosive.

If you want statistics there's loads of them out there, imports are one of the things we keep numbers for.
Most statistics though go by $$$ value rather than volume (at least I can't find any that go by volume).

[Ben@Forest]

We can make socks & pants over here. We as consumers would simply prefer other folk to make them cheaper for us.

Of course we'd still have to import the cotton - in ships. But there are other factors too. Years ago l went to a sustainable sourcing workshop, for me about timber but there were buyers from many industries there.

I met an M&S buyer and l asked her about the issues of flying in cash crops from Kenya or Zambia and so on. She said, yes l do that (or similar) but the producer l buy from is a women's co-operative and with the money they run a primary school. There's two sides to every story.

[al_yrpal]

I met an M&S buyer and l asked her about the issues of flying in cash crops from Kenya or Zambia and so on. She said, yes l do that (or similar) but the producer l buy from is a women's co-operative and with the money they run a primary school. There's two sides to every story.

Having been to a few African countries I am very sympathetic towards them and always look out for and buy their produce out of our season. Its disturbing to read of the way the subterranean aquifiers are being depleted to water Egyptian potatoes. These days Jersey Royals seem to be rubbish. There are all sorts of moral and practical dilemmas surrounding imports you can only follow your concience.

Al

[kwackers]

We can make socks & pants over here. We as consumers would simply prefer other folk to make them cheaper for us.

Of course we'd still have to import the cotton - in ships. But there are other factors too. Years ago l went to a sustainable sourcing workshop, for me about timber but there were buyers from many industries there.

I met an M&S buyer and l asked her about the issues of flying in cash crops from Kenya or Zambia and so on. She said, yes l do that (or similar) but the producer l buy from is a women's co-operative and with the money they run a primary school. There's two sides to every story.

Indeed there are.
There are Indian sweatshops out there rammed with with people working 12 hours a day - that occasionally collapse.

I fully appreciate the need for fair trade and even to ship stuff around the world.
I'm simply making the point that in the grand scheme of things cruise ships are a mere 'meh' and cleaning up shipping in general is something that needs looking at.
(That and encouraging genuine fair trade).

[mumbojumbo]

[quote
If you want statistics there's loads of them out there, imports are one of the things we keep numbers for.
Most statistics though go by $$$ value rather than volume (at least I can't find any that go by volume).[/quote]

In an argument,the onus is on you to support your case-not to i vite someone else to look because you are disinclined to,or unable to provide data.This is called scientific methodology.

[kwackers]

In an argument,the onus is on you to support your case-not to i vite someone else to look because you are disinclined to,or unable to provide data.This is called scientific methodology.

You're confusing me with someone who cares enough to provide you with an easy life.

I've told you what I think, I've also done some research which appears to back my view up.
The shops are full of crud most of which is self evidently not necessary for human existence and the majority is shipped over from "over there".
Without evidence to the contrary I consider the case closed.

[mumbojumbo]

Your case will not clash with your mind.

[KTHSullivan]

I really enjoyed the thread drift in this one. However; from the general thrust I have assumed that some people would enjoy and have indeed enjoyed cruises and some would not. I also derived a great amount entertainment and amusement over the speculative discussions concerning the efficiencies or otherwise of marine propulsion machinery and the marine industry as a whole. Please, please, please can we have more threads of this type makes my day.