PROMS-BBC disappoint

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Jdsk
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Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: PROMS-BBC disappoint

Postby Jdsk » 9 Sep 2020, 4:35pm

mercalia wrote:
Mike Sales wrote:
Jdsk wrote:It can't be the latter... devastation requires there being something there to devastate.

It is hard to negotiate with one who will repudiate any bargain made whenever it is convenient.

thats the morality of interstate agreements - enlightened self interest. if you think that states operate based on some kind of self sacrificing personal moral principles you are living in cloud cuckoo land.

No-one suggested that. The problem with today's announcement is that the other sovereign states will take into account the UK's new found willingness to break the law in future dealings with us. Negotiating trade agreements is hard enough, but negotiating with a state that breaks the rules once they've reached an agreement is much harder and much more likely to fail, just as Mike says.

Jonathan

mercalia
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Re: PROMS-BBC disappoint

Postby mercalia » 9 Sep 2020, 4:36pm

Jdsk wrote:
mercalia wrote:... and they will rescind the Withdrawal Agreement as-is as a sovereign state, but not the crucial GFA.

Why do you think that the UK Government will "rescind" the WA... have they said or "hinted" that they will?

Jonathan



from your above quote

It contains ambiguities and in key areas there is a lack of clarity. It was written on the assumption that subsequent agreements to clarify these aspects could be reached between us and the EU on the details and that may yet be possible."

what if not?

Jdsk
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Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: PROMS-BBC disappoint

Postby Jdsk » 9 Sep 2020, 4:39pm

Then the Agreement which we've negotiated and signed as a sovereign state persists until one party withdraws.

None of the concerns above are about renegotiating anything, they're about deliberately setting out to break agreements which we entered as a sovereign state.

Jonathan

mercalia
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Re: PROMS-BBC disappoint

Postby mercalia » 9 Sep 2020, 4:45pm

Jdsk wrote:Then the Agreement which we've negotiated and signed as a sovereign state persists until one party withdraws.

None of the concerns above are about renegotiating anything, they're about deliberately setting out to break agreements which we entered as a sovereign state.

Jonathan


thats your view not the PMs who regards there are points that are unclear. loop holes in effect. happens all the time in laws as any lawyer knows. Do you have lawyers who find them enter into negotiation with the other side?
Last edited by mercalia on 9 Sep 2020, 4:47pm, edited 1 time in total.

Jdsk
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Re: PROMS-BBC disappoint

Postby Jdsk » 9 Sep 2020, 4:47pm

That's not what the Bill says... have you had a chance to read it?

Jonathan

mercalia
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Re: PROMS-BBC disappoint

Postby mercalia » 9 Sep 2020, 4:48pm

Jdsk wrote:That's not what the Bill says... have you had a chance to read it?

Jonathan


I am only commenting on what you are reporting the PM has said. He is clearly claiming right or wrong that the Withdrawl Agreement is silent on certain matters. Is there a inbuilt protocol in that agreement how to resolve them or does it act as if there are none
Last edited by mercalia on 9 Sep 2020, 4:52pm, edited 1 time in total.

Jdsk
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Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: PROMS-BBC disappoint

Postby Jdsk » 9 Sep 2020, 4:50pm

Parliament is considering a Bill that will change our law. Stuff unattributable statements to lobby journalists: that's just froth in comparison.

Jonathan

Oldjohnw
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Re: PROMS-BBC disappoint

Postby Oldjohnw » 9 Sep 2020, 4:51pm

Johnson freely negotiated (and boasted of his skills), signed, campaigned on, obliged all Tory candidates to sign up to, won an election on, tried to stop parliament debating (eventually three days were allowed and no committee stages) and now he says it was hopeless from the beginning.

The S of S for NI said yesterday in parliament that the UK would be breaking international law.
Last edited by Oldjohnw on 9 Sep 2020, 5:58pm, edited 1 time in total.
John

mercalia
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Re: PROMS-BBC disappoint

Postby mercalia » 9 Sep 2020, 4:54pm

Oldjohnw wrote:Johnson freely negotiated (and boasted of his skills), signed, campaigned on, obliged all Tory candidates to sign up to, won an election on, tried to stop parliament debating (eventually three days were allowed and no committee stages) and now he says it was hopeless from the beginning.

The S of S for NI said yesterday in parliament that the EU would be breaking international law.


and Blair still went to war in Iraq.

Boris (tried to? I cant remember if he did so in the end) porogue Parliament last year and was advised it was ok to do so.

So if a politician says something then it is true? god help you :wink:
Last edited by mercalia on 9 Sep 2020, 4:58pm, edited 3 times in total.

Jdsk
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Re: PROMS-BBC disappoint

Postby Jdsk » 9 Sep 2020, 4:54pm

Oldjohnw wrote:The S of S for NI said yesterday in parliament that the EU would be breaking international law.

Did you mean that as it came out, John?

Thanks

Jonathan

roubaixtuesday
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Re: PROMS-BBC disappoint

Postby roubaixtuesday » 9 Sep 2020, 4:58pm

Oldjohnw wrote:Johnson freely negotiated (and boasted of his skills), signed, campaigned on, obliged all Tory candidates to sign up to, won an election on, tried to stop parliament debating (eventually three days were allowed and no committee stages) and now he says it was hopeless from the beginning.

The S of S for NI said yesterday in parliament that the EU would be breaking international law.


This.

Mercalia continues the great Brexit tradition of starting from the end point that the EU to blame for everything, and shutting eyes and ears to all evidence to the contrary however compelling.

Johnson's bill explicitly states it is breaching international law.

The UK's top legal official has resigned as a result.

Johnson's excuse is that it was all done quickly, so he doesn't have to honour the agreement which he used as the basis of his manifesto!

Rather than complain at being misled by Johnson, as mercalia must presumably have been, mercalia blames the EU. Remarkable stuff.

Jdsk
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Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: PROMS-BBC disappoint

Postby Jdsk » 9 Sep 2020, 5:15pm

roubaixtuesday wrote:Johnson's excuse is that it was all done quickly, so he doesn't have to honour the agreement which he used as the basis of his manifesto!

"Boris Johnson’s new deal takes the whole country out of the EU as one United Kingdom. It takes us out of the customs union, allowing us to set our own tariffs and do our own trade deals. It allows us to pass our own laws and ensures that it is our courts that enforce them
Our deal is the only one on the table. It is signed, sealed and ready."

https://www.conservatives.com/our-plan/get-brexit-done-and-unleash-britains-potential

Jonathan

mercalia
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Re: PROMS-BBC disappoint

Postby mercalia » 9 Sep 2020, 5:23pm

and interesting article whats really happening in the EU

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/macron-s-brexit-swansong-is-about-to-unfold?

so just laugh at the claim that the UK will become a pariah and a rogue state ( I heard that an mp shout that out on LBC) :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Last edited by mercalia on 9 Sep 2020, 5:27pm, edited 2 times in total.

mercalia
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Re: PROMS-BBC disappoint

Postby mercalia » 9 Sep 2020, 5:24pm

roubaixtuesday wrote:
Oldjohnw wrote:Johnson freely negotiated (and boasted of his skills), signed, campaigned on, obliged all Tory candidates to sign up to, won an election on, tried to stop parliament debating (eventually three days were allowed and no committee stages) and now he says it was hopeless from the beginning.

The S of S for NI said yesterday in parliament that the EU would be breaking international law.


This.

Mercalia continues the great Brexit tradition of starting from the end point that the EU to blame for everything, and shutting eyes and ears to all evidence to the contrary however compelling.

Johnson's bill explicitly states it is breaching international law.

The UK's top legal official has resigned as a result.

Johnson's excuse is that it was all done quickly, so he doesn't have to honour the agreement which he used as the basis of his manifesto!

Rather than complain at being misled by Johnson, as mercalia must presumably have been, mercalia blames the EU. Remarkable stuff.


one problem with your strange viewpoint is I am not a Brexit-eer :lol: :lol:

Jdsk
Posts: 2224
Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: PROMS-BBC disappoint

Postby Jdsk » 9 Sep 2020, 5:45pm

I'd hope that the desire for our Government to observe the rule of law wasn't related to how we voted in 2016 or what we think should happen now.

Jonathan