PROMS-BBC disappoint

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roubaixtuesday
Posts: 3273
Joined: 18 Aug 2015, 7:05pm

Re: PROMS-BBC disappoint

Postby roubaixtuesday » 11 Sep 2020, 2:16pm

mercalia wrote:
Oldjohnw wrote:Of course, even if International law has not been breached (altough the Government itself admits it has), or if international law, breached or not, is worthless, the UK Government's word is worthless, never to be trusted. Whatever they agree to in future might well be torn up within to he year if it suits. Britain's soft influence exists no more.


not true for the reason given above - no self respecting country would ever allow another block to have control over any part of its territory, so in this case I think any self respecting country would not let this count against the UK as long as the GFA is safe. And I explained above why the UK is in this predicament. If any thing the EU comes out badly in all of this


Yet despite your confidence, pretty much everyone in the public sphere disagrees with you. Including noted Brexiters like Michael Howard.

What do you think explains this discrepancy?

Jdsk
Posts: 2224
Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: PROMS-BBC disappoint

Postby Jdsk » 11 Sep 2020, 2:28pm

mercalia wrote:... no self respecting country would ever allow another block to have control over any part of its territory...

Should we close all of the USA's military bases in the UK? The agreement with NATO gives them extensive control over parts of UK territory.

Jonathan

mercalia
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Joined: 22 Sep 2013, 10:03pm
Location: london South

Re: PROMS-BBC disappoint

Postby mercalia » 11 Sep 2020, 2:30pm

roubaixtuesday wrote:
mercalia wrote:
Oldjohnw wrote:Of course, even if International law has not been breached (altough the Government itself admits it has), or if international law, breached or not, is worthless, the UK Government's word is worthless, never to be trusted. Whatever they agree to in future might well be torn up within to he year if it suits. Britain's soft influence exists no more.


not true for the reason given above - no self respecting country would ever allow another block to have control over any part of its territory, so in this case I think any self respecting country would not let this count against the UK as long as the GFA is safe. And I explained above why the UK is in this predicament. If any thing the EU comes out badly in all of this


Yet despite your confidence, pretty much everyone in the public sphere disagrees with you. Including noted Brexiters like Michael Howard.

What do you think explains this discrepancy?


They disagree with Cummings whose paws can be seen clearly in all of this. And we can guess what he thinks of the old guard
Last edited by mercalia on 11 Sep 2020, 2:36pm, edited 1 time in total.

Jdsk
Posts: 2224
Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: PROMS-BBC disappoint

Postby Jdsk » 11 Sep 2020, 2:36pm

mercalia wrote:... so in this case I think any self respecting country would not let this count against the UK as long as the GFA is safe.

That seems to be imagining some sort of dispute resolution: have you had a chance to check what the UK agreed to last year with the EU?

Thanks

Jonathan

mercalia
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Location: london South

Re: PROMS-BBC disappoint

Postby mercalia » 11 Sep 2020, 2:38pm

Jdsk wrote:
mercalia wrote:... so in this case I think any self respecting country would not let this count against the UK as long as the GFA is safe.

That seems to be imagining some sort of dispute resolution: have you had a chance to check what the UK agreed to last year with the EU?

Thanks

Jonathan


dont get how your remark is a reply to mine

roubaixtuesday
Posts: 3273
Joined: 18 Aug 2015, 7:05pm

Re: PROMS-BBC disappoint

Postby roubaixtuesday » 11 Sep 2020, 2:39pm

mercalia wrote:
roubaixtuesday wrote:
mercalia wrote:
not true for the reason given above - no self respecting country would ever allow another block to have control over any part of its territory, so in this case I think any self respecting country would not let this count against the UK as long as the GFA is safe. And I explained above why the UK is in this predicament. If any thing the EU comes out badly in all of this


Yet despite your confidence, pretty much everyone in the public sphere disagrees with you. Including noted Brexiters like Michael Howard.

What do you think explains this discrepancy?


They disagree with Cummings whose paws can be seen clearly in all of this. And we can guess what he thinks of the old guard


Right, so nigh on every public figure worldwide is holding these opinions purely because of personal animus to Cummings? I'm not sure you've thought this through.

Jdsk
Posts: 2224
Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: PROMS-BBC disappoint

Postby Jdsk » 11 Sep 2020, 2:42pm

mercalia wrote:
Jdsk wrote:
mercalia wrote:... so in this case I think any self respecting country would not let this count against the UK as long as the GFA is safe.

That seems to be imagining some sort of dispute resolution: have you had a chance to check what the UK agreed to last year with the EU?
dont get how your remark is a reply to mine

No problem. How about answering the question regardless? It's the one that followed:

mercalia wrote: I bet that wasnt in the treaty - a loop hole?

Thanks

Jonathan

Jdsk
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Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: PROMS-BBC disappoint

Postby Jdsk » 11 Sep 2020, 2:47pm

roubaixtuesday wrote:Yet despite your confidence, pretty much everyone in the public sphere disagrees with you. Including noted Brexiters like Michael Howard.

What do you think explains this discrepancy?

Good question, I'm wondering if it might possibly be related to having read the documents they're discussing.

Jonathan

roubaixtuesday
Posts: 3273
Joined: 18 Aug 2015, 7:05pm

Re: PROMS-BBC disappoint

Postby roubaixtuesday » 11 Sep 2020, 2:51pm

Jdsk wrote:
roubaixtuesday wrote:Yet despite your confidence, pretty much everyone in the public sphere disagrees with you. Including noted Brexiters like Michael Howard.

What do you think explains this discrepancy?

Good question, I'm wondering if it might possibly be related to having read the documents they're discussing.

Jonathan


Or perhaps direct experience of treaty negotiations and the impact of bad faith on them...

Jdsk
Posts: 2224
Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: PROMS-BBC disappoint

Postby Jdsk » 11 Sep 2020, 3:20pm

roubaixtuesday wrote:
Jdsk wrote:
roubaixtuesday wrote:Yet despite your confidence, pretty much everyone in the public sphere disagrees with you. Including noted Brexiters like Michael Howard.

What do you think explains this discrepancy?

Good question, I'm wondering if it might possibly be related to having read the documents they're discussing.

Or perhaps direct experience of treaty negotiations and the impact of bad faith on them...

Yes, could be that.

Jonathan

Oldjohnw
Posts: 4900
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Location: Northumberland

Re: PROMS-BBC disappoint

Postby Oldjohnw » 11 Sep 2020, 3:47pm

mercalia wrote:
Oldjohnw wrote:Of course, even if International law has not been breached (altough the Government itself admits it has), or if international law, breached or not, is worthless, the UK Government's word is worthless, never to be trusted. Whatever they agree to in future might well be torn up within to he year if it suits. Britain's soft influence exists no more.


not true for the reason given above - no self respecting country would ever allow another block to have control over any part of its territory, so in this case I think any self respecting country would not let this count against the UK as long as the GFA is safe. And I explained above why the UK is in this predicament. If any thing the EU comes out badly in all of this


Not what the US is saying. Johnson brought it on himself: he tried to have NI both in the EU and out at the same time. And told lies about it .
John

Jdsk
Posts: 2224
Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: PROMS-BBC disappoint

Postby Jdsk » 11 Sep 2020, 3:55pm

Admirably clear letter from the House of Lords Select Committee on the Constitution:
https://committees.parliament.uk/publications/2514/documents/24959/default/

Jonathan

mercalia
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Joined: 22 Sep 2013, 10:03pm
Location: london South

Re: PROMS-BBC disappoint

Postby mercalia » 11 Sep 2020, 4:40pm

Oldjohnw wrote:
mercalia wrote:
Oldjohnw wrote:Of course, even if International law has not been breached (altough the Government itself admits it has), or if international law, breached or not, is worthless, the UK Government's word is worthless, never to be trusted. Whatever they agree to in future might well be torn up within to he year if it suits. Britain's soft influence exists no more.


not true for the reason given above - no self respecting country would ever allow another block to have control over any part of its territory, so in this case I think any self respecting country would not let this count against the UK as long as the GFA is safe. And I explained above why the UK is in this predicament. If any thing the EU comes out badly in all of this


Not what the US is saying. Johnson brought it on himself: he tried to have NI both in the EU and out at the same time. And told lies about it .


One opinion re Perlosi was it is that she was talking to the Irish constituency and all they are concerned about is that the GFA is not damaged but the USA will still do a trade deal with the UK, as money makes the world go around...the world go around , the world go around.....
Last edited by mercalia on 11 Sep 2020, 4:52pm, edited 3 times in total.

mercalia
Posts: 13999
Joined: 22 Sep 2013, 10:03pm
Location: london South

Re: PROMS-BBC disappoint

Postby mercalia » 11 Sep 2020, 4:43pm

roubaixtuesday wrote:
mercalia wrote:
roubaixtuesday wrote:
Yet despite your confidence, pretty much everyone in the public sphere disagrees with you. Including noted Brexiters like Michael Howard.

What do you think explains this discrepancy?


They disagree with Cummings whose paws can be seen clearly in all of this. And we can guess what he thinks of the old guard


Right, so nigh on every public figure worldwide is holding these opinions purely because of personal animus to Cummings? I'm not sure you've thought this through.


Thats a big claim and I am suprised you think that people really say what they really mean, in politics, but when it comes to the crunch......
your in red not mine
Last edited by mercalia on 11 Sep 2020, 4:48pm, edited 3 times in total.

mercalia
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Joined: 22 Sep 2013, 10:03pm
Location: london South

Re: PROMS-BBC disappoint

Postby mercalia » 11 Sep 2020, 4:44pm

Jdsk wrote:
roubaixtuesday wrote:
Jdsk wrote:Good question, I'm wondering if it might possibly be related to having read the documents they're discussing.

Or perhaps direct experience of treaty negotiations and the impact of bad faith on them...

Yes, could be that.

Jonathan


we'll have to wait to see how this pans out.

I am surprised at the faith some here have in the truthfulness of politicians, think that it is only Johnson and co that are liars.