Aquaplaning....Twice.............1st For Me

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NATURAL ANKLING
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Aquaplaning....Twice.............1st For Me

Postby NATURAL ANKLING » 27 Aug 2020, 4:52pm

Hi,
Weather is heavy rain, accelerate up hill on a dual carriageway and see some water...........car slows a bit then its apparent that the front wheels are turning like wheel spin :(
I eased up...................and reduced speed and acceleration, happened again in a hundred yards or so.
No one was trying to pass me and I guess that the water was affecting their progress too.
1st for me even tho I dont always drive sedately.
The car is four wheel drive but there is no propshaft on at the mo, so its two wheel front drive and you ned to ease it on in 1st gear just like any front wheel car in the wet.
There is ABS but no traction control.......would that make any difference?
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Bonefishblues
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Re: Aquaplaning....Twice.............1st For Me

Postby Bonefishblues » 27 Aug 2020, 4:54pm

You would have found more traction with AWD, and Traction Control would have quelled the wheelspin (not aquaplaning, based on what you've described).

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NATURAL ANKLING
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Re: Aquaplaning....Twice.............1st For Me

Postby NATURAL ANKLING » 27 Aug 2020, 5:00pm

Hi,
Bonefishblues wrote:You would have found more traction with AWD, and Traction Control would have quelled the wheelspin (not aquaplaning, based on what you've described).

What then if not? I am curious.
Yes AWD would have been different..........but I will never know.

Edited- I reckon I was doing 50 mph in third up hill, 100 bhp.
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Re: Aquaplaning....Twice.............1st For Me

Postby Bonefishblues » 27 Aug 2020, 5:06pm

NATURAL ANKLING wrote:Hi,
Bonefishblues wrote:You would have found more traction with AWD, and Traction Control would have quelled the wheelspin (not aquaplaning, based on what you've described).

What then if not? I am curious.
Yes AWD would have been different..........but I will never know.

Edited- I reckon I was doing 50 mph in third up hill, 100 bhp.

You were spinning your wheels under acceleration uphill (presumably quite skinny tyres?), exceeding grip available, and you lost the ability to steer for that reason.

AP is when the car's wheels lose contact because of their inability to clear the quantity of water under them. Similar outcomes, different causes, and in your case, easier to regain control by backing off.

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Re: Aquaplaning....Twice.............1st For Me

Postby rjb » 27 Aug 2020, 5:23pm

I had a similar experience entering a roundabout. I corrected the steering and was then heading straight for the middle onto the grass. Fortunately traction restored and I managed to correct my line and creep on around. It gave me a fright at the time and I didn't think I was going that fast either. BTW I had an incident down your way on the bike in heavy rain at Shinners Bridge near Dartington. 1970 or there about. Tried to take a corner too fast in a road race and was gently deposited in a sitting position on the highway. I slid for a long way only coming to a stop when I encountered the bridge wall. A motorcycle traffic cop stopping traffic for us gave me a wry smile.
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tim-b
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Re: Aquaplaning....Twice.............1st For Me

Postby tim-b » 27 Aug 2020, 5:51pm

Hi
It could be aquaplaning (front tyres separated from the road surface), and it could be a skid (loosely defined as a tyre(s) slipping in relation to the road surface). In either case be more aware of the weather and road conditions and make sure that your tyres have plenty of tread depth (1.6mm is the legal minimum for a car, tests show that 3mm is way better).
There are various types of skid, e.g. wheelspin, skid under braking, understeer, oversteer, etc. so as the driver don't be too harsh with the accelerator, the brakes, the steering and don't drive too fast. Aquaplaning or a skid are most likely to be driver error and if it happens once address the cause(s) so that it doesn't happen again
Modern safety systems will try to help you, but ultimately they all rely on a tyre(s) being able to grip the road. ABS will only assist you when braking, assuming that there is tyre grip available (although the ABS components will be used in other systems when not braking, e.g. hill-start assistance)
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pwa
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Re: Aquaplaning....Twice.............1st For Me

Postby pwa » 28 Aug 2020, 7:05am

Check the tyres just in case you have overlooked a lack of tread depth. The legal limit is nowhere near adequate in heavy rain.

Perhaps there was a diesel spill on the road.

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Re: Aquaplaning....Twice.............1st For Me

Postby Pebble » 28 Aug 2020, 9:13am

NATURAL ANKLING wrote:Hi,
Weather is heavy rain, accelerate up hill on a dual carriageway and see some water...........car slows a bit then its apparent that the front wheels are turning like wheel spin :(
I eased up...................and reduced speed and acceleration, happened again in a hundred yards or so.
No one was trying to pass me and I guess that the water was affecting their progress too.
1st for me even tho I dont always drive sedately.
The car is four wheel drive but there is no propshaft on at the mo, so its two wheel front drive and you ned to ease it on in 1st gear just like any front wheel car in the wet.
There is ABS but no traction control.......would that make any difference?

curious to what sort of vehicle and what sort of transmission, remove the rear prop and it would go no where. Or can you somehow lock the centre diff at dual carriageway speeds ?

I'm sure you are right that it was the front wheels loosing traction, but some of these modern 4wd systems are very complex, could it have been trying to direct power to the rear wheels.

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Re: Aquaplaning....Twice.............1st For Me

Postby Pebble » 28 Aug 2020, 9:15am

Pebble wrote:
NATURAL ANKLING wrote:Hi,
Weather is heavy rain, accelerate up hill on a dual carriageway and see some water...........car slows a bit then its apparent that the front wheels are turning like wheel spin :(
I eased up...................and reduced speed and acceleration, happened again in a hundred yards or so.
No one was trying to pass me and I guess that the water was affecting their progress too.
1st for me even tho I dont always drive sedately.
The car is four wheel drive but there is no propshaft on at the mo, so its two wheel front drive and you ned to ease it on in 1st gear just like any front wheel car in the wet.
There is ABS but no traction control.......would that make any difference?

curious to what sort of vehicle and what sort of transmission, remove the rear prop with some and it may not go any where. Or can you somehow lock the centre diff at dual carriageway speeds ?

I'm sure you are right that it was the front wheels loosing traction, but some of these modern 4wd systems are very complex, could it have been trying to direct power to the rear wheels.

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NATURAL ANKLING
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Re: Aquaplaning....Twice.............1st For Me

Postby NATURAL ANKLING » 28 Aug 2020, 9:50am

Hi,
The hill is a dual carriageway dead straight.
climbs 72 feet in a quarter of a mile.
Accelerating at about 50 miles an hour.
Saw the water and reduced the throttle so I was doing constant speed.
Vehicles. slowed slightly then got the sensation that the front wheels were not driving and engine increased in speed momentarily.
Reduce the throttle accordingly came out of the water at about 40 mph.
then 100 yards later hit another bank of water.
Same thing happened again I was not celebrating and vehicle was going straight on and very possible always going even slower still.
Driving conditions are not good and continued on for a few more miles only getting 50 in places.
Car is a 4x4 but only has front wheel drive at the moment.
Tires have a minimum of 3.5 mm of tread.
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was it aquaplaning? Maybe not.
I have had wheelspin in a rear wheel drive car In fourth gear going uphill on a relatively smooth surface in the damp 30 miles an hour.
But it was a pick up and I could lift the rear axle off the ground with my puny self, but they were cross ply tires.
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[XAP]Bob
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Re: Aquaplaning....Twice.............1st For Me

Postby [XAP]Bob » 28 Aug 2020, 12:33pm

If the wheelsman was silent then it could easily have been aquaplaning - hitting standing water is the easiest way to aquaplane. Either way, good thing you weren't on even a gentle bend.
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
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Re: Aquaplaning....Twice.............1st For Me

Postby Bonefishblues » 28 Aug 2020, 12:43pm

Based on that description I think it was aquaplaning. I get off throttle completely if I unexpectedly hit deep standing water and make no steering inputs. Cars tend to go the way they're pointed, mostly!

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Re: Aquaplaning....Twice.............1st For Me

Postby NATURAL ANKLING » 28 Aug 2020, 1:35pm

Hi,
The road is notorious for standing water normally on top where its flat.
Yesterday was exceptional as I sat in the car watching the river run down over the windscreen coming off the roof.
It's normally quite easy to Spot the standing water on the road I'm not saying that's always the case elsewhere.
But it's not the sort of thing you expect on a hill climbs 300 foot in a mile.
I put it down to experience.
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Re: Aquaplaning....Twice.............1st For Me

Postby peetee » 29 Aug 2020, 11:12am

Aquaplaning rarely effects the car evenly. The state of the tyres, weight distribution of the vehicle, road surface and depth of water can all effect the ability of the car and driver to regain control and traction. It’s not enough to say that backing off the throttle will result in regaining control. If the car is particularly ‘nose-heavy’ and has good in-gear engine braking off the throttle, backing right off the gas could make one front tyre regain grip and the car going ‘tail-light’ and spinning.
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Re: Aquaplaning....Twice.............1st For Me

Postby Bonefishblues » 29 Aug 2020, 8:03pm

peetee wrote:Aquaplaning rarely effects the car evenly. The state of the tyres, weight distribution of the vehicle, road surface and depth of water can all effect the ability of the car and driver to regain control and traction. It’s not enough to say that backing off the throttle will result in regaining control. If the car is particularly ‘nose-heavy’ and has good in-gear engine braking off the throttle, backing right off the gas could make one front tyre regain grip and the car going ‘tail-light’ and spinning.

What is the correct procedure to adopt, having critiqued that one?