Aquaplaning....Twice.............1st For Me

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Bonefishblues
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Re: Aquaplaning....Twice.............1st For Me

Postby Bonefishblues » 3 Sep 2020, 11:44am

peetee wrote:I once owned a 4 wheel drive Audi and drove it several times on hard-packed snowy (icy) roads. To be honest, on standard road tyres the traction advantage was marginal and only achievable with very carefully measured application of the pedals.

Slightly more traction, zero more grip.

merseymouth
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Re: Aquaplaning....Twice.............1st For Me

Postby merseymouth » 3 Sep 2020, 12:02pm

Hi, Mia Culpa! It was remiss of me not to make clear my Saab/Studded Tyres position correctly? I was of course referring to their rallying use, so unless used on UK roads they would legal in the sport. Saab used the narrow section tyres in non-studded form to good advantage
When a rally car gets on to public roads they must comply with all traffic regulations.
As for pressure or force? The weight of the vehicle surely imposes downward pressure, so facilitates more forward movement when the wheels rotate.
Don't shoot me, I'm only a spanner turner, not a design engineer. :oops: IGICB MM
* I've heard of tricycle riders, pedal powered, who use studded tyres? Wouldn't want to make contact between rump & tyre :roll: :roll:

Jdsk
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Re: Aquaplaning....Twice.............1st For Me

Postby Jdsk » 3 Sep 2020, 12:05pm

merseymouth wrote:As for pressure or force? The weight of the vehicle surely imposes downward pressure, so facilitates more forward movement when the wheels rotate.

It depends on what you want to stay constant in that comparison of narrow and wide tyres.

Shirley

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[XAP]Bob
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Re: Aquaplaning....Twice.............1st For Me

Postby [XAP]Bob » 3 Sep 2020, 12:31pm

merseymouth wrote:Hi, Mia Culpa! It was remiss of me not to make clear my Saab/Studded Tyres position correctly? I was of course referring to their rallying use, so unless used on UK roads they would legal in the sport. Saab used the narrow section tyres in non-studded form to good advantage
When a rally car gets on to public roads they must comply with all traffic regulations.
As for pressure or force? The weight of the vehicle surely imposes downward pressure, so facilitates more forward movement when the wheels rotate.
Don't shoot me, I'm only a spanner turner, not a design engineer. :oops: IGICB MM
* I've heard of tricycle riders, pedal powered, who use studded tyres? Wouldn't want to make contact between rump & tyre :roll: :roll:

I have a full set of studded tyres for my commuting trike.

It's been while since they've been needed, but when they have been they're amazing things...
The biggest issue is the morons who don't realise that you have studded tyres, and follow at your speed. I then turn a corner, and they fly straight past heading towards the hedge.
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.

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mjr
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Re: Aquaplaning....Twice.............1st For Me

Postby mjr » 3 Sep 2020, 1:04pm

[XAP]Bob wrote:I have a full set of studded tyres for my commuting trike.

It's been while since they've been needed, but when they have been they're amazing things...
The biggest issue is the morons who don't realise that you have studded tyres, and follow at your speed. I then turn a corner, and they fly straight past heading towards the hedge.

I suggest slowing down for cornering anyway because otherwise the following riders may be tempted to outbrake themselves even earlier and slide into your back before the corner, plus there is a small risk of the ice gripped by the studded tyres itself detaching from any smooth tarmac underneath and making you an ice surfboard! That last is probably less likely on a trike than a bike but a one wheel skid would still be annoying.
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
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[XAP]Bob
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Re: Aquaplaning....Twice.............1st For Me

Postby [XAP]Bob » 3 Sep 2020, 1:24pm

Interestingly the only time when other cyclists have done that was in the dry, on an audax...

I was running on a gentle downhill, and there was a sharp right turn. I could have made the corner, but had just passed a club of cyclists - I didn't reckon *they* could.

I pulled up on the left calling "right turn here" and I was correct, about half of the club overshot the junction - that would have been several t-bone collisions had I not been sufficiently aware of them.
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.

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Pastychomper
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Re: Aquaplaning....Twice.............1st For Me

Postby Pastychomper » 4 Sep 2020, 10:39am

1.6 tonnes, 100bhp, and has the prop shaft removed to make it front-wheel-drive only. Sounds a lot like the Freelander I scrapped earlier this year. (At least I thought I'd scrapped it, the next guy put the seized prop shaft back on, added chunky tyres and sold it on as a farm vehicle.) It was pretty good as cars go, aside from the mpg.
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NATURAL ANKLING
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Re: Aquaplaning....Twice.............1st For Me

Postby NATURAL ANKLING » 4 Sep 2020, 1:31pm

Hi,
I think the car is a bit of a lemon but we have had it for 17 years, never failed to go anywhere never failed to start.
The prop shaft was off for repair.
I managed to pick up a secondhand prop shaft normally and they are very very expensive Even secondhand.
When I looked at it the spigot on one was different length.
so hacksawed off a section from the old one and welded it to the second one.
It was the rubber doughnut but had started to disintegrate, plus one of the online bearings.
Need to put it back on soon because the handling is somewhat different, and two wheel drive it's just like a normal two wheel drive car.
In four-wheel-drive which is permanent four-wheel-drive it sticks to the road like a limpet.
NA Thinks Just End 2 End Return + Bivvy
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tim-b
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Re: Aquaplaning....Twice.............1st For Me

Postby tim-b » 5 Sep 2020, 7:22am

Hi
NATURAL ANKLING wrote:Hi,
I think the car is a bit of a lemon but we have had it for 17 years, never failed to go anywhere never failed to start.
The prop shaft was off for repair.
I managed to pick up a secondhand prop shaft normally and they are very very expensive Even secondhand.
When I looked at it the spigot on one was different length.
so hacksawed off a section from the old one and welded it to the second one.
It was the rubber doughnut but had started to disintegrate, plus one of the online bearings.
Need to put it back on soon because the handling is somewhat different, and two wheel drive it's just like a normal two wheel drive car.
In four-wheel-drive which is permanent four-wheel-drive it sticks to the road like a limpet.

If I've understood your post correctly then take the time to get the prop shaft balanced if you experience vibration
Regards
tim-b
~~~~¯\(ツ)/¯~~~~

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NATURAL ANKLING
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Re: Aquaplaning....Twice.............1st For Me

Postby NATURAL ANKLING » 5 Sep 2020, 9:57am

Hi,
Yes I believe that was already balanced and I've made as good a job as I can with the tools I have, sleeving the tubing, being careful how much the weld I have applied and where.
We will see when it's back on.

My mates had chronic vibration on his van once.
One of his other mates you know the type, said oh that's the diff mate.
I never rode in the van at all.
He brought the innards of the diff Around, I think it was something to do with the bearings, He's other mate said you need a press to do that job mate, well I haven't got a press and I did finish the job off for him.
Like I said I never rode in the van at all I just went on what he said I said have you been underneath and checked around to see if anything is loose yeah done all that he said.
Anyway I went round his house and he said I've still got that vibration I said well how bad is it? it's bad.
He took me up the road and only went a few yards, I said something is loose.
Put it this way the dash is actually moving up and down.
I've got underneath and it took me no time at all diagnose The universal joint was shot and a Universal joint was flopping around in the wind.
Get another prop I said.
NA Thinks Just End 2 End Return + Bivvy
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Please forgive the poor Grammar I blame it on my mobile and phat thinkers.

Jdsk
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Re: Aquaplaning....Twice.............1st For Me

Postby Jdsk » 5 Sep 2020, 10:29am

NATURAL ANKLING wrote:The prop shaft was off for repair.

Need to put it back on soon because the handling is somewhat different, and two wheel drive it's just like a normal two wheel drive car.
In four-wheel-drive which is permanent four-wheel-drive it sticks to the road like a limpet.

Thinking of the original incident... does the transfer box or any of the diffs do anything smart on that model... and could the absence of the rear propshaft have interacted with that when a tyre lost grip?

Jonathan

pwa
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Re: Aquaplaning....Twice.............1st For Me

Postby pwa » 5 Sep 2020, 11:01am

Something a bit "different" has been going on with the OP because the sort of loss of traction described is not normal. We get a lot of standing water on the country roads around here after heavy rain and I can't remember ever having marked loss of traction. The most I have ever had is slight drifting out of the tail on a roundabout, and even that was very minimal and only for a second.

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NATURAL ANKLING
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Re: Aquaplaning....Twice.............1st For Me

Postby NATURAL ANKLING » 5 Sep 2020, 11:07am

Hi,
Jdsk wrote:
NATURAL ANKLING wrote:The prop shaft was off for repair.

Need to put it back on soon because the handling is somewhat different, and two wheel drive it's just like a normal two wheel drive car.
In four-wheel-drive which is permanent four-wheel-drive it sticks to the road like a limpet.

Thinking of the original incident... does the transfer box or any of the diffs do anything smart on that model... and could the absence of the rear propshaft have interacted with that when a tyre lost grip?

Jonathan


Yes almost certainly made a difference I would've thought.
Prop shaft missing so no rear wheel drive.
Permanent four wheel drive, there is a unit mounted on the rear diff, which when it senses one/both of the front wheels slipping locks up and give you 100% four-wheel-drive to the rear wheels.
Normally when it's all working it's almost impossible to induce wheelspin, although I have found two ways to do that mind you :mrgreen:
Obviously there is no diff between the front and the rear wheels, so the unit which is hydraulic has to allow for limited slip, that's the difference between Front and rear wheel travel when cornering, But when there is a rapid acceleration in the ratio between the front and the rear wheels the unit locks up I would imagine in a variable way So front and rear diff see same revolutions, And thus Recovering grip to all four wheels.
2020-09-05_121413.jpg
https://x-engineer.org/automotive-engineering/drivetrain/awd-technologies/types-four-wheel-drive-4wd-all-wheel-drive-awd-systems/

https://stuklopechat.com/avtomobili/378 ... ystvo.html
NA Thinks Just End 2 End Return + Bivvy
You'll Still Find Me At The Top Of A Hill
Please forgive the poor Grammar I blame it on my mobile and phat thinkers.