Aquaplaning....Twice.............1st For Me

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Jdsk
Posts: 2224
Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: Aquaplaning....Twice.............1st For Me

Postby Jdsk » 29 Aug 2020, 8:12pm

Gently off the throttle, centralise the steering, switch off "cruise control" etc, wait for grip to return.

Jonathan

PS: Every event like this that you survive is an opportunity to visualise and rehearse what you're going to do next time.

PPS: I strongly recommend skid pan sessions... discover how cars like yours behave and learn from experts, and they're often more fun for a group of friends or family than are typical track days.

Bonefishblues
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Joined: 7 Jul 2014, 9:45pm
Location: Near Bicester Oxon

Re: Aquaplaning....Twice.............1st For Me

Postby Bonefishblues » 29 Aug 2020, 8:28pm

Jdsk wrote:Gently off the throttle, centralise the steering, switch off "cruise control" etc, wait for grip to return.

Jonathan

PS: Every event like this that you survive is an opportunity to visualise and rehearse what you're going to do next time.

PPS: I strongly recommend skid pan sessions... discover how cars like yours behave and learn from experts, and they're often more fun for a group of friends or family than are typical track days.

That's what I do, but Peetee intimates there's a better way I think.

peetee
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Joined: 4 May 2010, 10:20pm
Location: Cornwall

Re: Aquaplaning....Twice.............1st For Me

Postby peetee » 29 Aug 2020, 11:10pm

Bonefishblues wrote:
Jdsk wrote:Gently off the throttle, centralise the steering, switch off "cruise control" etc, wait for grip to return.

Jonathan

PS: Every event like this that you survive is an opportunity to visualise and rehearse what you're going to do next time.

PPS: I strongly recommend skid pan sessions... discover how cars like yours behave and learn from experts, and they're often more fun for a group of friends or family than are typical track days.

That's what I do, but Peetee intimates there's a better way I think.


Not at all, I agree with JDSK and if a similar comment was aired earlier, I apologise for missing it. The only experience I can add is nearly loosing control of a VW Jetta I owned after I backed right off the throttle on a wet bend. The tail stepped out and caught me by surprise as it was a trait my previous car, a Polo, never displayed despite being driven by me for 7 years, many times in conditions far worse than that day in the Jetta.
Current status report:
Back on two wheels in deepest Pastyland and loving every minute. Mission: to enjoy big, bad hills again.

tim-b
Posts: 1538
Joined: 10 Oct 2009, 8:20am

Re: Aquaplaning....Twice.............1st For Me

Postby tim-b » 30 Aug 2020, 7:32am

Hi
snip...I backed right off the throttle on a wet bend. The tail stepped out and caught me by surprise...

Lift-off oversteer (see my post on P1 for causes); weight in effect transfers from the rear wheels to the front too quickly allowing the rear to pivot around the front
Typically tyres wear at different rates front to rear and some recommend that your better tyres are fitted to the rear (Uniroyal link-scroll to Changing the tyres: Our three tips)
Regards
tim-b
~~~~¯\(ツ)/¯~~~~

Bonefishblues
Posts: 8204
Joined: 7 Jul 2014, 9:45pm
Location: Near Bicester Oxon

Re: Aquaplaning....Twice.............1st For Me

Postby Bonefishblues » 30 Aug 2020, 8:08am

tim-b wrote:Hi
snip...I backed right off the throttle on a wet bend. The tail stepped out and caught me by surprise...

Lift-off oversteer (see my post on P1 for causes); weight in effect transfers from the rear wheels to the front too quickly allowing the rear to pivot around the front
Typically tyres wear at different rates front to rear and some recommend that your better tyres are fitted to the rear (Uniroyal link-scroll to Changing the tyres: Our three tips)
Regards
tim-b

There's always a poofight on car forums about which axle the best tyres should be fitted to, but I'm a rear axle advocate, along with every reasonably authoritative source.

merseymouth
Posts: 1927
Joined: 23 Jan 2011, 11:16am

Re: Aquaplaning....Twice.............1st For Me

Postby merseymouth » 3 Sep 2020, 9:04am

Hi, There is a tendency these days to employ wider tyres, a la boy racer! for the same weight of vehicle the narrower tyre will exert more downward pressure for each inch of tyre width, so improves water dispersal. The same happens in snow, hence why Saab used to fit narrower tyres in such conditions. The use of studded tyres in snow is the current trend, but the surface suffers under wheel-spin.
The best vehicle I have ever driven in snowy uphill conditions is a Fiat 126. Just enough power, the right weight distribution, as the weight favoured the rear-wheel drive toy.
Going down-hill was another question? TTFN MM

Jdsk
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Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: Aquaplaning....Twice.............1st For Me

Postby Jdsk » 3 Sep 2020, 9:11am

merseymouth wrote:... for the same weight of vehicle the narrower tyre will exert more downward pressure for each inch of tyre width...

Do you mean pressure or force?

Thanks

Jonathan

Jdsk
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Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: Aquaplaning....Twice.............1st For Me

Postby Jdsk » 3 Sep 2020, 9:12am

merseymouth wrote:The use of studded tyres in snow is the current trend, but the surface suffers under wheel-spin.

Cars in the UK are rarely swapped to winter tyres, but I think that it is becoming more common. Worth considering.

Jonathan

Bonefishblues
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Joined: 7 Jul 2014, 9:45pm
Location: Near Bicester Oxon

Re: Aquaplaning....Twice.............1st For Me

Postby Bonefishblues » 3 Sep 2020, 9:24am

Jdsk wrote:
merseymouth wrote:The use of studded tyres in snow is the current trend, but the surface suffers under wheel-spin.

Cars in the UK are rarely swapped to winter tyres, but I think that it is becoming more common. Worth considering.

Jonathan

I've never seen studded tyres used in the UK. It's illegal if there isn't lying snow, IIRC. I've seen, and used myself all seasons and winters used more frequently.

tatanab
Posts: 4179
Joined: 8 Feb 2007, 12:37pm

Re: Aquaplaning....Twice.............1st For Me

Postby tatanab » 3 Sep 2020, 9:25am

merseymouth wrote:The best vehicle I have ever driven in snowy uphill conditions is a Fiat 126. Just enough power, the right weight distribution, as the weight favoured the rear-wheel drive toy.
Similarly, 20 years ago working in Switzerland we had 18" of snow one night. I could not cycle to work so set out to walk, which in those conditions may have taken 2 hours. I laughed at all the luxobarge BMWs etc sliding and going nowhere even though the main roads had been cleared of the bulk of snow. About half way to work a chap in a 2CV picked me up. He was having so much fun that he was going round roundabouts 2 or 3 times for the hell of it.

In the UK, since I drive only seldom I use winter tyres all year round although I have recently fitted a set of modern 4 seasons tyres. Studded car tyres are not permitted in the UK, but when I lived in the USA I found it comical that suburb drivers would use them pretending to be rufty tufty country dwellers.

Jdsk
Posts: 2224
Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: Aquaplaning....Twice.............1st For Me

Postby Jdsk » 3 Sep 2020, 9:38am

tatanab wrote:I laughed at all the luxobarge BMWs etc sliding and going nowhere even though the main roads had been cleared of the bulk of snow. About half way to work a chap in a 2CV picked me up.

Similar on our moderate hill in Oxfordshire, and hilariously so when a sloping muddy field was used as a car park for the country house opera.

But electric drive will make an enormous difference.

Jonathan

Pebble
Posts: 198
Joined: 7 Jun 2020, 11:59pm

Re: Aquaplaning....Twice.............1st For Me

Postby Pebble » 3 Sep 2020, 10:24am

tatanab wrote:In the UK, since I drive only seldom I use winter tyres all year round although I have recently fitted a set of modern 4 seasons tyres. Studded car tyres are not permitted in the UK, but when I lived in the USA I found it comical that suburb drivers would use them pretending to be rufty tufty country dwellers.

Agreed winter tyres make a huge difference, my old fwd van fitted with winter tyres is better in the snow than my wife's high tech traction control 4x4 fitted with normal tyres.

Tyres sizes, diameter, width, profile, compound, tread. have very complex relationship with grip, surface type, rolling resistance, noise. There is no best solution for every circumstance. I guess the wide low profile tyres fitted to about all cars now is the best compromise for typical driving.

Have ice stud tyres always been illegal UK ? - I used to have some 25+ years ago, they were excellent, but I went onto chains which were may be less of a nuisance in that you could fit them after getting stuck. Don't live so stupidly remote now. :(

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NATURAL ANKLING
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Location: English Riviera

Re: Aquaplaning....Twice.............1st For Me

Postby NATURAL ANKLING » 3 Sep 2020, 10:36am

Hi,
In snow and ice it's probably Tyres that gets you through.
The car weighs 1.6 tons and uses 32 to 34 psi.
The camper can be twice as heavy and I don't normally drop below 58 psi, the camper also has narrower tires.
I think it's somewhat anecdotal as you can have many conditions of snow and ice, I used to own a 4x4 Subaru sumo 1200 van it was simply a joy to drive in any condition.
Many years ago me and my mate helped some drivers who was stuck in a dip near his house, it didn't appear to make little difference whether it was front or rear wheel drive many different vehicles, neither showed improvement over any of the rest.
But a lighter vehicle will also have very low inertia, so will be easier or should be to get going.
NA Thinks Just End 2 End Return + Bivvy
You'll Still Find Me At The Top Of A Hill
Please forgive the poor Grammar I blame it on my mobile and phat thinkers.

Bonefishblues
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Joined: 7 Jul 2014, 9:45pm
Location: Near Bicester Oxon

Re: Aquaplaning....Twice.............1st For Me

Postby Bonefishblues » 3 Sep 2020, 10:41am

NATURAL ANKLING wrote:Hi,
In snow and ice it's probably Tyres that gets you through.

It's exactly tyres. MX5 Mk2.5 on full winters in 2010's snow - what hilarious fun and (literally) ran rings around stranded SUVs :D

peetee
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Joined: 4 May 2010, 10:20pm
Location: Cornwall

Re: Aquaplaning....Twice.............1st For Me

Postby peetee » 3 Sep 2020, 11:13am

I once owned a 4 wheel drive Audi and drove it several times on hard-packed snowy (icy) roads. To be honest, on standard road tyres the traction advantage was marginal and only achievable with very carefully measured application of the pedals.
Current status report:
Back on two wheels in deepest Pastyland and loving every minute. Mission: to enjoy big, bad hills again.