Surnames

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Mick F
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Surnames

Postby Mick F » 29 Aug 2020, 7:45pm

Generally, when people marry, the wife takes the surname of the husband.
Children take the same surname too.
Been like that for hundreds of years and wives loose their names.
If the roles were reversed, and the husband took the wife's surname, the same thing would happen.

Is there a non-gender solution to this?
Are surnames pointless?
Mick F. Cornwall

Tangled Metal
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Re: Surnames

Postby Tangled Metal » 29 Aug 2020, 7:54pm

Double barrelled names. Not just for toffs you know! :D

Of course the kids get the double barrelled names, adults keep their own. Then at school they often get their surnames shortened to the initials of their double barrelled names.

Jdsk
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Re: Surnames

Postby Jdsk » 29 Aug 2020, 7:58pm

There are many other naming systems around the world.

Couples should be free to use whichever they want.

Our children have both of our family names, and can choose themselves what they want to be called.

Jonathan

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Mick F
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Re: Surnames

Postby Mick F » 29 Aug 2020, 8:08pm

Tangled Metal wrote:Double barrelled names. Not just for toffs you know! :D
Yes, true, but what happens a generation later?
Quadruple-barrelled names?

Then what?
Octuple?
Mick F. Cornwall

sjs
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Re: Surnames

Postby sjs » 29 Aug 2020, 8:15pm

Mick F wrote:
Tangled Metal wrote:Double barrelled names. Not just for toffs you know! :D
Yes, true, but what happens a generation later?
Quadruple-barrelled names?

Then what?
Octuple?


I think that's more or less the Spanish system.

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Re: Surnames

Postby Jdsk » 29 Aug 2020, 8:18pm

The second family name typically only lasts for one generation. Historically the maternal was much more likely to be dropped.

Jonathan

Mike Sales
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Re: Surnames

Postby Mike Sales » 29 Aug 2020, 8:18pm

I enjoy the Icelandic system which produced a president called Vigdis Finnbogadottir, in contrast to all those Nordic -sons.

Jdsk
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Re: Surnames

Postby Jdsk » 29 Aug 2020, 8:21pm

Yes, the Icelandic system is particularly interesting. Other forms of words have to be found for "going to visit the Sales", and telephone directories (remember them?) are tricky.

Jonathan

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Mick F
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Re: Surnames

Postby Mick F » 29 Aug 2020, 8:21pm

So what's double octuple?
.............. or even double double octuple?
You can't just double-barrell surnames endlessly. There has to be a convention perhaps?

Trouble is, it's sexist which is a bit non-pc these days.
Mick F. Cornwall

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Re: Surnames

Postby Jdsk » 29 Aug 2020, 8:22pm

Mick F wrote:You can't just double-barrell surnames endlessly. There has to be a convention perhaps?

Jdsk wrote:The second (Spanish) family name typically only lasts for one generation. Historically the maternal was much more likely to be dropped.

Jonathan

PS: Of course there isn't a single uniform system within Spain, let alone all countries which were once ruled by Spain.
Last edited by Jdsk on 29 Aug 2020, 8:24pm, edited 1 time in total.

Mike Sales
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Re: Surnames

Postby Mike Sales » 29 Aug 2020, 8:24pm

Jdsk wrote:Yes, the Icelandic system is particularly interesting. Other forms of words have to be found for "going to visit the Sales", and telephone directories (remember them?) are tricky.

Jonathan


When dealing with the VAT man I was asked my name, in addition to the name of my business.
"Michael Sales"
"No, your name."

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Re: Surnames

Postby Jdsk » 29 Aug 2020, 8:26pm

Mike Sales wrote:When dealing with the VAT man I was asked my name, in addition to the name of my business.
"Michael Sales"
"No, your name."

: - )

See also the Indian family name "Engineer".

Jonathan

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Re: Surnames

Postby Cyril Haearn » 29 Aug 2020, 9:15pm

Tangled Metal wrote:Double barrelled names. Not just for toffs you know! :D

Of course the kids get the double barrelled names, adults keep their own. Then at school they often get their surnames shortened to the initials of their double barrelled names.

If there are two kids the suffixes 'major' and 'minor' are added
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Re: Surnames

Postby Tangled Metal » 29 Aug 2020, 10:07pm

I once heard of a triple barrelled surname. A double barreled married a single surname and produced a triple barrelled child? I think parents would drop a few names if things started getting a bit too long.

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Re: Surnames

Postby Vorpal » 29 Aug 2020, 10:30pm

Mick F wrote:Generally, when people marry, the wife takes the surname of the husband.
Children take the same surname too.
Been like that for hundreds of years and wives loose their names.
If the roles were reversed, and the husband took the wife's surname, the same thing would happen.

Is there a non-gender solution to this?
Are surnames pointless?

First of all, it doesn't go that way everywhere. In Italy, for example, the woman keeps her surname. Children generally get their father's surname, but not always. In Spain, girls generally take their mother's names, and boys, their fathers. Some of the gentry, when they marry, take the name associated with the highest status.

Historically, families with wealth enough to bother about such things would sometimes negotiate a 'named' child to inherit a particular estate or something.

I didn't take my husband's name when we married. And we followed the Spanish custom. Mini V has my surname and Litttlest has Mr. V's.

In France, people cannot any name other than what is on their birth certificate for any legal purposes. Though couples often use the same suname for social purposes. In Greece, it is illegal for women to change their name after/because of marriage.

I know a couple who, when they got married, put all of their grandparents & great-grandparents surnames in a hat & drew one at random, then both changed their names.

I don't think surnnames are pointless, but it probably isn't important that they are family names.
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