Surnames

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drossall
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Re: Surnames

Postby drossall » 29 Aug 2020, 11:14pm

I suggested at our reception that taking a double-barrelled surname might have implied a shotgun wedding. The speech went downhill after that.

My wife took my name, but we are proudly members of both families, and have spent more time investigating her family history.

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Mick F
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Re: Surnames

Postby Mick F » 30 Aug 2020, 9:03am

drossall wrote:I suggested at our reception that taking a double-barrelled surname might have implied a shotgun wedding. The speech went downhill after that.
Love it! :lol: :lol:
Mick F. Cornwall

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Gew
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Re: Surnames

Postby Gew » 30 Aug 2020, 9:33am

My younger sister kept her name when she married. In fact, her husband took her name. This is fairly uncommon practise, however.

thirdcrank
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Re: Surnames

Postby thirdcrank » 30 Aug 2020, 10:10am

AFAIK, in England you can use whatever name you please and change it as often as you like so long as it's not for a fraudulent purpose. I would say that in the modern world, anybody who strays from the norms risks endless trouble. It can be hard enough establishing your ID with organisations like banks, even if you have always had the same name. In this country there's a very strong assumption that you will have a "first" name which is personal and a surname which is both family-based and will be last.

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al_yrpal
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Re: Surnames

Postby al_yrpal » 30 Aug 2020, 10:52am

My son has two step children now in their 20s. He has been a real Dad to them since they were 5 and 7, but their real Dad hasnt. Recently the kids both told my son they are changing their surnames to his in recognition of what he has done for them. Very sweet gesture... :D

Al
Touring on a bicycle is a great way to explore and appreciate the countryside and towns you pass through. Make a difference...

mumbojumbo
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Re: Surnames

Postby mumbojumbo » 30 Aug 2020, 11:38am

Surnames often reflected a person's occupation.I found a book which contained the usual barbers,slaters and taylors.I did find some new ones.
1.Linakar-slicer of potatoes and presenter of trivial information
2.Cumins-advisor and doom forcaster
3.Jonson inseminator and general farmhand
4.Gover one who propogates weeds and noxious plants
5.Mayer-often female,counsellor,advocate,somnulist and inducer of trances

If yoiu have any to add to my list feel free!

drossall
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Re: Surnames

Postby drossall » 30 Aug 2020, 12:47pm

thirdcrank wrote:AFAIK, in England you can use whatever name you please and change it as often as you like so long as it's not for a fraudulent purpose. I would say that in the modern world, anybody who strays from the norms risks endless trouble. It can be hard enough establishing your ID with organisations like banks, even if you have always had the same name. In this country there's a very strong assumption that you will have a "first" name which is personal and a surname which is both family-based and will be last.

Whilst I'm not arguing for unquestioning obedience, I think there are some ways in which following societal norms is a mark of respect for others. For example, I was brought up to eat quietly and to finish my food (within reason), thus showing consideration for those around me, and appreciation to the cook. In other societies, I know that eating more loudly shows appreciation of the food, and leaving something on your plate shows that you have been given sufficient.

None of these behaviours is in itself better than any other, but each is done for the benefit of others and not oneself. Even my name, perhaps, is there for others and not me - since I know who I am, and many surnames are, in origin, just monikers to distinguish "John Sheffield", as in "John who comes from Sheffield" from ""John Nottingham". So, in our society, they have come to represent "John and Anne who are part of the same family group, and therefore have the same name."

But these are thoughts, not rules.

thirdcrank
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Re: Surnames

Postby thirdcrank » 30 Aug 2020, 1:46pm

My point is that non-compliance can make dealing with official bodies worse than it is already and my impression is that computers are even worse than paper-based systems.

I have two Christian names - given. to me when I was baptised - but in current parlance they are fore names and fair enough. I don't no why mother chose two names, or rather I know why she did the choosing because by the time I was born my dear old dad was invading Europe, but I don't know why one was insufficient, even less why she chose to ignore the first and always use my middle name. It means that only family call me by the full version of my middle name which was shortened in my student days and is so used by everyone who I have met since. Nurses and others who know my full name but are trying to be familiar use my first name.

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al_yrpal
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Re: Surnames

Postby al_yrpal » 30 Aug 2020, 1:49pm

We had a welder in our factory in the South Wales Valleys. He only had two front teeth above and below. He was known as Di Central Eatin' :lol: The Maintenance Manager's surname was Gair, he was known as Gair the repair... :D

Al
Touring on a bicycle is a great way to explore and appreciate the countryside and towns you pass through. Make a difference...

lbomaak2
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Re: Surnames

Postby lbomaak2 » 30 Aug 2020, 1:53pm

thirdcrank wrote:AFAIK, in England you can use whatever name you please and change it as often as you like so long as it's not for a fraudulent purpose. I would say that in the modern world, anybody who strays from the norms risks endless trouble. It can be hard enough establishing your ID with organisations like banks, even if you have always had the same name. In this country there's a very strong assumption that you will have a "first" name which is personal and a surname which is both family-based and will be last.


My wife is Singaporean, of Chinese ethnicity. So she has a Chinese name (family name + two given names) but, as is common in Singapore, adopted a Western name as well. Then she married me and took my surname (whereas in Chinese tradition, women generally do not adopt their husband's surname). So there is a variety of name combinations that she can be known by, some of which are completely different from each other: original Chinese family name + two given names has nothing in common with adopted Western name + my surname! She has to be very careful with what combination of names she id using for any official documents; there has been at least one occasion where she has had problems at an airport because the name under which she booked the ticket doesn't match the name in her passport.

drossall
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Re: Surnames

Postby drossall » 30 Aug 2020, 2:31pm

thirdcrank wrote:I have two Christian names - given. to me when I was baptised - but in current parlance they are fore names and fair enough. I don't no why mother chose two names, or rather I know why she did the choosing because by the time I was born my dear old dad was invading Europe, but I don't know why one was insufficient, even less why she chose to ignore the first and always use my middle name. It means that only family call me by the full version of my middle name which was shortened in my student days and is so used by everyone who I have met since. Nurses and others who know my full name but are trying to be familiar use my first name.

Both my father and my father in law had this. In my father's case, my grandparents wanted a name they favoured, but also to use the name of my grandfather's brother, killed in WW1, as a second name. They felt that the names sounded better with the uncle's name first. So my father was always known by his second name, except by officials and people who didn't check.

Using two names can be a way to honour a family member without giving every generation the same name. I in turn have my father's name as my second name. He passed away the year after we were married, so we also gave his name to our son as a second name, making three generations in all with that second name. For our daughter, we did the same with the name of her maternal grandmother, who passed away when my wife was still a child.

thirdcrank
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Re: Surnames

Postby thirdcrank » 30 Aug 2020, 3:13pm

drossall wrote: ... Both my father and my father in law had this. In my father's case, my grandparents wanted a name they favoured, but also to use the name of my grandfather's brother, killed in WW1, as a second name. They felt that the names sounded better with the uncle's name first. So my father was always known by his second name, except by officials and people who didn't check.

Using two names can be a way to honour a family member without giving every generation the same name. I in turn have my father's name as my second name. He passed away the year after we were married, so we also gave his name to our son as a second name, making three generations in all with that second name. For our daughter, we did the same with the name of her maternal grandmother, who passed away when my wife was still a child.


I'm ok with people having whatever name they like so long as they are not trying to con anybody ( Q OK Ken what's your other name? A Tuckeyfriedchicken) but I'm making the simple point it can cause trouble with official bodies - and I had a bit of a waffle about my own names.

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fossala
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Re: Surnames

Postby fossala » 30 Aug 2020, 4:36pm

My wife and I had our son at 17 and we didn’t marry until we where 26. We talked about what we would do about names, our son already had mine. We wanted to pick a new surname and for us to all take it but my Son wasn’t keen on the idea so she took mine (and his). So much for being “David Batman”.

ambodach
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Re: Surnames

Postby ambodach » 30 Aug 2020, 6:26pm

In a smallish community such as where I live { Permanent population about 2000 } there is often duplication with both names and a nickname is often used instead of the given name. ie Willie Mann was in fact Willie MacLean but outsiders often referred to him as Mr Mann as they did not know any better. It is possible I suppose in the fulness of time that he could have adopted that as a surname. In the doctor's surgery we are separated by date of birth as having 4 people with the same forename and surname would cause confusion. Double barrel surnames would be less likely to be confused particularly if the forenames are different.
In the Western Isles certainly people are often referred to by occupation as their nickname which bears no relation to the name on their birth certificate.

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Mick F
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Re: Surnames

Postby Mick F » 30 Aug 2020, 6:38pm

Going on from what TC was saying, I'm a Stephen Michael, but for all my life I've been Michael, Mike, or usually Mick.
Stephen bit of it is there, and I'm happy to be SM, but I dislike intensely being referred to as plain Stephen.
What gives people the right to call ANYONE by their first name without asking first?

It's got to the point, that I've "changed" my name by hyphenating it to Stephen-Michael rather than two separate Christian names.
Mick F. Cornwall