"Advanced Decisions"

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gbnz
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Joined: 13 Sep 2008, 10:38am

"Advanced Decisions"

Postby gbnz » 2 Sep 2020, 8:36am

Whilst I'm <50, exceptionally fit, I'm aware that a medical issue could easily result in my having an accident on the bike and who knows, turning myself into a vegtatable. And so, I've served an Advanced Decision to ensure those .......at the NHS can't touch me

And yet; I've slowly come to realize that on lying roadside, unconscious for probably a couple of hours two weeks ago, those ....at the NHS totally ignored my Advanced Decision. Fair enough, it's highly unlikely I would have died; but still those ....put me in an Intensive Unit for a couple of days.

So, while I've no death wish (Nb. I'm off to the gym in 45 minutes & am using September to drop a bit of excess weight), whats the best way to ensure an Advanced Decision is complied with? Mine had been updated and signed/counter signed no more than four weeks ago. I'll obtain and review my medical records to ensure those...at the NHS haven't deleted it

pwa
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Joined: 2 Oct 2011, 8:55pm

Re: "Advanced Decisions"

Postby pwa » 2 Sep 2020, 8:41am

You don't want the NHS to try to save you if you are the subject of an incident that renders you unconscious? That seems extreme.

Jdsk
Posts: 2224
Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: "Advanced Decisions"

Postby Jdsk » 2 Sep 2020, 8:43am

Please could you add the full wording of your "Advanced Decision".

Thanks

Jonathan

PS: NHS advice on "Advance decision (living will)"
https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/end-of-life-care/advance-decision-to-refuse-treatment/

gbnz
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Joined: 13 Sep 2008, 10:38am

Re: "Advanced Decisions"

Postby gbnz » 2 Sep 2020, 8:46am

pwa wrote:You don't want the NHS to try to save you if you are the subject of an incident that renders you unconscious? That seems extreme.


Ok fair enough. I'm merely concerned to ensure that in more extreme situations my Advanced Decision is complied with. Having had to spend eight months taking formal action against the NHS for Gross Malpractice last year , I'm aware that they're self serving ......

pwa
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Joined: 2 Oct 2011, 8:55pm

Re: "Advanced Decisions"

Postby pwa » 2 Sep 2020, 8:50am

gbnz wrote:
pwa wrote:You don't want the NHS to try to save you if you are the subject of an incident that renders you unconscious? That seems extreme.


Ok fair enough. I'm merely concerned to ensure that in more extreme situations my Advanced Decision is complied with. Having had to spend eight months taking formal action against the NHS for Gross Malpractice last year , I'm aware that they're self serving ......

Please be careful not to label the whole NHS (for whom my son works as a nurse) as "self-serving", when you probably have a grievance against a few individuals. I'm not saying your grievance isn't justified, just that it isn't against the entire staff of the NHS.

Do you have family or a partner to fight your corner if necessary, or are you on your own in this?

Jdsk
Posts: 2224
Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: "Advanced Decisions"

Postby Jdsk » 2 Sep 2020, 8:53am

gbnz wrote:Having had to spend 8 months taking formal action against the NHS for Gross Malpractice last year...

What does "formal action" mean, please? A complaint? Did it get to court? What was the outcome? Is it published in a report?

Jonathan

PS: "The NHS" isn't a legal entity. Was this the Northumbria Healthcare NHS Foundation Trust?

PPS: That's currently holding the record for the least surprising post of the day. Most people who talk about their individual care discuss their nurses, their doctors etc and what actually happened rather than "the NHS". See pwa's comment above.
Last edited by Jdsk on 2 Sep 2020, 9:01am, edited 2 times in total.

Oldjohnw
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Joined: 16 Oct 2018, 4:23am
Location: Northumberland

Re: "Advanced Decisions"

Postby Oldjohnw » 2 Sep 2020, 8:55am

I am receiving exemplary care from all in the NHS with whom I have contact: GP, nurses, admin, consultant, radiologist, transport.
John

gbnz
Posts: 1829
Joined: 13 Sep 2008, 10:38am

Re: "Advanced Decisions"

Postby gbnz » 2 Sep 2020, 9:02am

Jdsk wrote:Please could you add the full wording of your "Advanced Decision".l]


A summary, is as followws;

"I do not wish to be treated to life saving treatment, should I lose the mental and physical capacity to live my life without being obligated to accept treatment and/or care from the NHS, medical or care professions, due to injuries sustained in accidents or actions of any nature" (I.e. should I drown, or acquire injuries whilst cycling, running, climbing etc)

Perhaps I should note that out of respect for staff at the swimming pool, I have ceased swimming locally as it's unfair on them when I drown :wink:

Jdsk
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Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: "Advanced Decisions"

Postby Jdsk » 2 Sep 2020, 9:07am

From that wording would I be right to conclude that you didn't get legal advice on it?

Is this the injury in which you broke your shoulder?

What was the nature and severity of your head and any other injuries, please?

Thanks

Jonathan

pwa
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Joined: 2 Oct 2011, 8:55pm

Re: "Advanced Decisions"

Postby pwa » 2 Sep 2020, 9:11am

I have to say that gbnz has raised an interesting topic about which I don't know much at all. I would assume (wrongly?) that it would help if you had a spouse to push for your wishes to be respected if you were not able to do that yourself. Anyone know if that is correct?

I guess that if you don't want to live if you can't live without significant ongoing care, it is likely that hospital staff would take a while to exhaust all the possible interventions that might just lead to a satisfactory outcome (as defined by yourself) before calling it a day. That could take weeks or months. They would have to reach a point where they could discuss your case and agree that there is no realistic chance of you recovering to a degree you find acceptable, no matter what further therapies are attempted.

Jdsk
Posts: 2224
Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: "Advanced Decisions"

Postby Jdsk » 2 Sep 2020, 9:17am

pwa wrote:I have to say that gbnz has raised an interesting topic about which I don't know much at all. I would assume (wrongly?) that it would help if you had a spouse to push for your wishes to be respected if you were not able to do that yourself. Anyone know if that is correct?

It helps enormously for your family etc to know about your wishes whether or not you've made an Advance Decision.

Please look at the NHS advice linked above, a lot of work has gone into this.

Jonathan

PS:
Wikipedia on the position in England and Wales:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advance_healthcare_directive#England_and_Wales

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NATURAL ANKLING
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Location: English Riviera

Re: "Advanced Decisions"

Postby NATURAL ANKLING » 2 Sep 2020, 9:21am

Hi,
pwa wrote:You don't want the NHS to try to save you if you are the subject of an incident that renders you unconscious? That seems extreme.

+1
NA Thinks Just End 2 End Return + Bivvy
You'll Still Find Me At The Top Of A Hill
Please forgive the poor Grammar I blame it on my mobile and phat thinkers.

thirdcrank
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Joined: 9 Jan 2007, 2:44pm

Re: "Advanced Decisions"

Postby thirdcrank » 2 Sep 2020, 9:46am

IMO, if anybody over 18 is left suddenly incapacitated then if they have not planned for the situation, their nearest and dearest will have a lot more to worry about than the NHS. Without the specific authority to act on that person's behalf they face a nightmare in addition to having a loved one suddenly incapacitated. The way to give this authority is by making and registering Lasting Powers of Attorney.

https://www.gov.uk/power-of-attorney

If that's not done, then the alternative, especially if the incapacitated person has more than a few quid is a very expensive and time consuming approach to the Court of Protection. It's easy to assume that next-of-kin have implied authority but in many cases they do not: the law can only assume that if the person did not take these steps they decided not to do so, ie there was no one they trusted to appoint as their attorney.

Also, purely my impression but I fancy that since Harold Shitman was convicted of multiple murders, a lot of dying people have been left lingering.

I've now reached the age / poor health where few of my body parts would be useful if I were to be broken up for scrap, but IMO for anybody younger, that's an area to think about.

botty
Posts: 88
Joined: 31 Dec 2014, 8:24pm

Re: "Advanced Decisions"

Postby botty » 2 Sep 2020, 1:22pm

It would appear to me the NHS staff did comply with your 'Advanced directive'. I read it as you wish to avoid life saving treatment if you will be left with long term mental/physical health problems that impair your ability to live an independent life. However if the treatment provided is reasonably expected by the healthcare providers to preserve your life and not lead to permanent disability I feel they can be thought of as abiding by your wishes.

Jdsk
Posts: 2224
Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: "Advanced Decisions"

Postby Jdsk » 2 Sep 2020, 2:32pm

I can't tell what that "summary" means. But with some creative interpretation I agree.

Jonathan