Vinyl -> digital

Use this board for general non-cycling-related chat, or to introduce yourself to the forum.
User avatar
[XAP]Bob
Posts: 17670
Joined: 26 Sep 2008, 4:12pm

Re: Vinyl -> digital

Postby [XAP]Bob » 8 Sep 2020, 9:20pm

mercalia wrote:well my hifi system is a counterexample to that idea since on identical recordings on cd and LP they sound the same - the so called warmth isnt inevitable, some people must be deliberatley or just by bad luck choosing gear that distorts whats on the LP


Don't for a moment think that you are wrong about your system - sounds nicely tuned.
The other big thing is that the masters are often different between the media, it's often difficult to find the same recording on multiple media (which makes double blind testing rather difficult a lot of the time).
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.

User avatar
[XAP]Bob
Posts: 17670
Joined: 26 Sep 2008, 4:12pm

Re: Vinyl -> digital

Postby [XAP]Bob » 8 Sep 2020, 11:17pm

simonineaston wrote:Guys, peeeer-leeeese don't ruin this thread by regurgitating that old, dull, worn and ultimately pointless digital-versus-analogue chestnut again. It's been done to death ad infinitum - there really isn't anything new to add to it...


What digital *vs* analogue?
All sound is analogue eventually, then it's digitally transferred to your brain... just figure the bitrate on that ;)

The issue here is one of converting a vinyl collection for more convenient listening... Which reminds me, it's not legal in this country. Ho hum.
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.

User avatar
simonineaston
Posts: 3410
Joined: 9 May 2007, 1:06pm
Location: Live & work in Briz'l

Re: Vinyl -> digital

Postby simonineaston » 9 Sep 2020, 8:41am

The issue here is one of converting a vinyl collection for more convenient listening...
Quite.
ttfn, Simon in Easton
(currently enjoying a Moulton TSR & a nano Brompton...)

User avatar
[XAP]Bob
Posts: 17670
Joined: 26 Sep 2008, 4:12pm

Re: Vinyl -> digital

Postby [XAP]Bob » 9 Sep 2020, 8:46am

Just reread the first post - sounds like the “cable” or input might be expecting a high impedance signal - have you tried plugging the cable in to your amp’s headphone jack?
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.

Cowsham
Posts: 633
Joined: 4 Nov 2019, 1:33pm

Re: Vinyl -> digital

Postby Cowsham » 9 Sep 2020, 9:01am

I bought an old direct drive JVC turntable which would have been Mega bucks when new for about £35 about 15 years ago for this job.

I was getting a strange low rumble distortion in the recordings until I placed the turntable on a cushion of foam ( about 2" ) -- the needle was picking up the just the sound of itself in the groove amplified by the long worktop the turntable was on.

I had some vinyl I knew would never be on CD ( born into a family of musicians with even inlaws making records at one time or another -- comes with the territory )

Most of the music I listen to was on cd so I bought mostly used or NOS cd's for a couple of quid each off eBay and transfered them to wav files to put on my phone. Even some of these cd's are collectors items now.

Daft but true.

hamster
Posts: 3573
Joined: 2 Feb 2007, 12:42pm

Re: Vinyl -> digital

Postby hamster » 9 Sep 2020, 9:45am

[XAP]Bob wrote:The issue here is one of converting a vinyl collection for more convenient listening... Which reminds me, it's not legal in this country. Ho hum.


It is, converting something you already own for personal use.
Ripping it for a friend isn't .

mercalia
Posts: 13999
Joined: 22 Sep 2013, 10:03pm
Location: london South

Re: Vinyl -> digital

Postby mercalia » 9 Sep 2020, 10:09am

[XAP]Bob wrote:
mercalia wrote:well my hifi system is a counterexample to that idea since on identical recordings on cd and LP they sound the same - the so called warmth isnt inevitable, some people must be deliberatley or just by bad luck choosing gear that distorts whats on the LP


Don't for a moment think that you are wrong about your system - sounds nicely tuned.
The other big thing is that the masters are often different between the media, it's often difficult to find the same recording on multiple media (which makes double blind testing rather difficult a lot of the time).


Thats why I mentioned my examples are classical where there is less likelihood of that happening and also that pop music some times the mastering is different ( I read. I have a Lana Del Rey on cd and LP that that may be true off - both in hifi terms are naff so compressed but the LP maybe a bit better, Sounds better on a tranny :roll: where I suspect they were mastered for). Record playing is so much at the mercy of the particular record deck and cartridge and loading characteristic ( esp moving magnet - capacitance in the cables and few phono stages can be adjusted to deal with this factor) that thats the culprit than any thing on the record - I used to have a Rega Planar 3 then moved up to a Roksan Xerxes ( long time ago) and the difference in sound was night and day - The Rega by comparison was like squinting thru my eyes at some thing, the sound was so thin & small.

I have given up thinking of converting my Lps to digital as too time consuming, just as others here try to get some cd versions as long as they are cheap. Fortunatley many the LP recordings that were once premium price are now budget on cd ( thank goodness)
Last edited by mercalia on 9 Sep 2020, 10:38am, edited 6 times in total.

Stradageek
Posts: 775
Joined: 17 Jan 2011, 1:07pm

Re: Vinyl -> digital

Postby Stradageek » 9 Sep 2020, 10:27am

al_yrpal wrote:We all have something in common no matter how far we might appear to differ. Personally I cannot stand folk who cant tolerate others point of views, religions or activities. I am a very tolerant person. Vive la difference!

Al

Serious thread drift coming I'm afraid Al, but I'd like to know your opinion.

My mother is terminally racist to the extent that she believes that all black Africans are promiscuous and stupid and mixed marriage is a form of bestiality. She propounds this point of view at every opportunity.

I have in no way disowned her (I blame a colonial upbringing, mostly in South Africa) but would you really just respond to one of her tirades with "yes I can see your point of view"

I await your response with interest :?

User avatar
Si
Moderator
Posts: 15133
Joined: 5 Jan 2007, 7:37pm

Re: Vinyl -> digital

Postby Si » 9 Sep 2020, 11:09am

[XAP]Bob wrote:Just reread the first post - sounds like the “cable” or input might be expecting a high impedance signal - have you tried plugging the cable in to your amp’s headphone jack?


yes, tried that, no better.

User avatar
simonineaston
Posts: 3410
Joined: 9 May 2007, 1:06pm
Location: Live & work in Briz'l

Re: Vinyl -> digital

Postby simonineaston » 9 Sep 2020, 1:19pm

Considering the huge gain required to get a phono signal up to line level, and the likely arrangements in place for screening, especially inside the PC, and on the sound-card (assuming there is one, as opposed to just a chip on the main board...) symptoms as described at the top of the thread are all but inevitable... folks wanting decent audio performance from PCs tend to build them to spec.. Even dyed-in-the-wool audiophiles can struggle with the arrangments for quiet signal between cartridge and amp. I know I have.
Personally, I'm thinking Si is facing an uphill struggle, to persue the DIY vinyl to digital file ambition.
ttfn, Simon in Easton
(currently enjoying a Moulton TSR & a nano Brompton...)

rjb
Posts: 3983
Joined: 11 Jan 2007, 10:25am
Location: Somerset (originally 60/70's Plymouth)

Re: Vinyl -> digital

Postby rjb » 9 Sep 2020, 1:38pm

I think Si is using a line level output from his amp into his pc. This could be part of the problem as it could be too much signal. If the recording levels are set very low on the pc this could be an indication that signal attenuation is required between amp and pc. Check your recording levels and let us know if they are set very low or in the middle of the band. :wink:
I assume Si's amp has a phono input and a line output, and not an exotic head amp from a moving coil cartridge which still needs a phono stage to correct the cartridge frequency response as do all cartridges. How are you connecting your amp line output to your pc? Does it have a stereo 3.5 mm jack input? Don't use the microphone input socket. :wink:
Last edited by rjb on 9 Sep 2020, 8:46pm, edited 2 times in total.
At the last count:- Peugeot 531 pro, Dawes Discovery Tandem, Dawes Kingpin, Raleigh 20, Falcon K2 MTB dropped bar tourer, Longstaff trike conversion on a Falcon corsa. :D

User avatar
[XAP]Bob
Posts: 17670
Joined: 26 Sep 2008, 4:12pm

Re: Vinyl -> digital

Postby [XAP]Bob » 9 Sep 2020, 2:03pm

hamster wrote:
[XAP]Bob wrote:The issue here is one of converting a vinyl collection for more convenient listening... Which reminds me, it's not legal in this country. Ho hum.


It is, converting something you already own for personal use.
Ripping it for a friend isn't .


In the US it's fair use, not in the Uk.
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.

Cowsham
Posts: 633
Joined: 4 Nov 2019, 1:33pm

Re: Vinyl -> digital

Postby Cowsham » 9 Sep 2020, 2:39pm

Si wrote:
[XAP]Bob wrote:Just reread the first post - sounds like the “cable” or input might be expecting a high impedance signal - have you tried plugging the cable in to your amp’s headphone jack?


yes, tried that, no better.


Haven't read through the whole thread but it looks like if your signal is straight from the back of a turntable then it's most likely still at phono level ie the level produced by the stylus. You'll need to amplify this to line level which is 1v peak to peak. This would apply mostly to stand alone turntables -- if the turntable is incorporated into a music centre this amplification will be already done and the line level signal will be available at the "Phono" connector line outputs. This is where the confusion happens for many people. Phono (or more correctly known as RCA connectors) are not all at line level (1v p-p).

Here is a link to the sort of amp you'll need between your turntable and your computer line in.
Don't know what price it is didn't look but you can pick one up for under £20 I would imagine -- many years ago I designed and made one to fix a high spec system.
https://www.turntablelab.com/pages/begi ... turntables

User avatar
simonineaston
Posts: 3410
Joined: 9 May 2007, 1:06pm
Location: Live & work in Briz'l

Re: Vinyl -> digital

Postby simonineaston » 9 Sep 2020, 3:04pm

Haven't read through the whole thread...
Original post rushes over important steps, but they're there :wink: :
Bought the cables, downloaded the software, plugged my deck into my amp into my PC and tried it.
I'm imagining the amp has a phono stage built-in... otherwise, teeny-weeny output from cartridge is too small, obs.
ttfn, Simon in Easton
(currently enjoying a Moulton TSR & a nano Brompton...)

User avatar
RickH
Posts: 5140
Joined: 5 Mar 2012, 6:39pm
Location: Horwich, Lancs.

Re: Vinyl -> digital

Postby RickH » 9 Sep 2020, 4:13pm

Whilst having a good input is important, the software you use at the computer end is as well.

Much as I like Audacity for general recording, I have found Wave Corrector to be very good software for recording from vinyl & tape.

It has advanced features for declicking vinyl & dehissing tape. The Pro version lets you manually edit the declicking to get your preferred balance between removing the defect & preserving the surrounding audio. The program used to be shareware (I was impressed enough by it to pay back in the day) but it is now freeware.