Vinyl -> digital

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hamster
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Re: Vinyl -> digital

Postby hamster » 9 Sep 2020, 4:22pm

[XAP]Bob wrote:
hamster wrote:
[XAP]Bob wrote:The issue here is one of converting a vinyl collection for more convenient listening... Which reminds me, it's not legal in this country. Ho hum.


It is, converting something you already own for personal use.
Ripping it for a friend isn't .


In the US it's fair use, not in the Uk.


You are indeed right.
Just discovered that indeed the government introduced it in 2014 and then backtracked a year later. It seemed to have got busy then with some trivial constitutional project and done nothing since...

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simonineaston
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Re: Vinyl -> digital

Postby simonineaston » 9 Sep 2020, 4:32pm

However, in practice the legislation re copying your own musical media is academic... I don't know, nor have ever heard of, any individual taken to task for copying and sharing music amongst family or friends, regardless of the manner in which it was done. I'd be very suprised if anyone can point to an example with any authority.
ttfn, Simon in Easton
(currently enjoying a Moulton TSR & a nano Brompton...)

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[XAP]Bob
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Re: Vinyl -> digital

Postby [XAP]Bob » 9 Sep 2020, 5:40pm

simonineaston wrote:However, in practice the legislation re copying your own musical media is academic... I don't know, nor have ever heard of, any individual taken to task for copying and sharing music amongst family or friends, regardless of the manner in which it was done. I'd be very suprised if anyone can point to an example with any authority.


Whilst I agree, and I would suggest that format shifting really ought to be legal.... motorists will claim that running over cyclists should be legal. Don't really want to be in that place where we start picking and choosing regulations to follow.
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.

Cowsham
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Re: Vinyl -> digital

Postby Cowsham » 9 Sep 2020, 11:17pm

simonineaston wrote:
Haven't read through the whole thread...
Original post rushes over important steps, but they're there :wink: :


Your not getting it -- although it may sound OK as he listens via headphones from the amp output the amplifier needs to be matched to the turntable ie it needs to be the right kind of amp to bring the balanced ( swings about 0v ) very small signal from the stylus to line level which is not balanced ( 0v to 1v ). If that's in place the other thing is earthing of the turntable ( there should be a dedicated earth terminal on it ) which I think has been covered in the thread.

Another thing to look out for is to keep the room silent ( another reason for my soft foam below turntable -- see previous post ) ie don't have the music playing audible in the room because the needle picks up the sound especially when turntable is on a hard surface and gives distortion on the recording. Took me a while to figure that one out.

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simonineaston
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Re: Vinyl -> digital

Postby simonineaston » 10 Sep 2020, 8:27am

That's exactly what I thought... :D
ttfn, Simon in Easton
(currently enjoying a Moulton TSR & a nano Brompton...)

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[XAP]Bob
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Re: Vinyl -> digital

Postby [XAP]Bob » 10 Sep 2020, 8:43am

Cowsham wrote:
simonineaston wrote:
Haven't read through the whole thread...
Original post rushes over important steps, but they're there :wink: :


Your not getting it -- although it may sound OK as he listens via headphones from the amp output the amplifier needs to be matched to the turntable ie it needs to be the right kind of amp to bring the balanced ( swings about 0v ) very small signal from the stylus to line level which is not balanced ( 0v to 1v ). If that's in place the other thing is earthing of the turntable ( there should be a dedicated earth terminal on it ) which I think has been covered in the thread.

Another thing to look out for is to keep the room silent ( another reason for my soft foam below turntable -- see previous post ) ie don't have the music playing audible in the room because the needle picks up the sound especially when turntable is on a hard surface and gives distortion on the recording. Took me a while to figure that one out.


Turntable outputs aren’t balanced, they are just low amplitude.

It may we’ll be level matching, it could also be impedance matching - don’t think we yet know what sound card input Sinisbusing, nor do we have a sample of what he is hearing.
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.

Cowsham
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Re: Vinyl -> digital

Postby Cowsham » 10 Sep 2020, 10:21am

[XAP]Bob wrote:
Cowsham wrote:
simonineaston wrote:Original post rushes over important steps, but they're there :wink: :


Your not getting it -- although it may sound OK as he listens via headphones from the amp output the amplifier needs to be matched to the turntable ie it needs to be the right kind of amp to bring the balanced ( swings about 0v ) very small signal from the stylus to line level which is not balanced ( 0v to 1v ). If that's in place the other thing is earthing of the turntable ( there should be a dedicated earth terminal on it ) which I think has been covered in the thread.

Another thing to look out for is to keep the room silent ( another reason for my soft foam below turntable -- see previous post ) ie don't have the music playing audible in the room because the needle picks up the sound especially when turntable is on a hard surface and gives distortion on the recording. Took me a while to figure that one out.


Turntable outputs aren’t balanced.


Mine are.

rjb
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Re: Vinyl -> digital

Postby rjb » 10 Sep 2020, 12:08pm

Cowsham wrote:Another thing to look out for is to keep the room silent ( another reason for my soft foam below turntable -- see previous post ) ie don't have the music playing audible in the room because the needle picks up the sound especially when turntable is on a hard surface and gives distortion on the recording. Took me a while to figure that one out.


Many hi fi buffs used an inner tube as the basis for an isolation mat beneath their turntables. Marginal gains springs to mind but appropriate for folk on this forum. Now weres my puncture repair kit, dropped the needle again. :lol:
At the last count:- Peugeot 531 pro, Dawes Discovery Tandem, Dawes Kingpin, Raleigh 20, Falcon K2 MTB dropped bar tourer, Longstaff trike conversion on a Falcon corsa. :D

Cowsham
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Re: Vinyl -> digital

Postby Cowsham » 10 Sep 2020, 2:02pm

rjb wrote:
Cowsham wrote:Another thing to look out for is to keep the room silent ( another reason for my soft foam below turntable -- see previous post ) ie don't have the music playing audible in the room because the needle picks up the sound especially when turntable is on a hard surface and gives distortion on the recording. Took me a while to figure that one out.


Many hi fi buffs used an inner tube as the basis for an isolation mat beneath their turntables. Marginal gains springs to mind but appropriate for folk on this forum. Now weres my puncture repair kit, dropped the needle again. :lol:


Well done -- getting it back to a cycle related post. :D

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[XAP]Bob
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Re: Vinyl -> digital

Postby [XAP]Bob » 10 Sep 2020, 5:35pm

Cowsham wrote:
[XAP]Bob wrote:
Cowsham wrote:
Your not getting it -- although it may sound OK as he listens via headphones from the amp output the amplifier needs to be matched to the turntable ie it needs to be the right kind of amp to bring the balanced ( swings about 0v ) very small signal from the stylus to line level which is not balanced ( 0v to 1v ). If that's in place the other thing is earthing of the turntable ( there should be a dedicated earth terminal on it ) which I think has been covered in the thread.

Another thing to look out for is to keep the room silent ( another reason for my soft foam below turntable -- see previous post ) ie don't have the music playing audible in the room because the needle picks up the sound especially when turntable is on a hard surface and gives distortion on the recording. Took me a while to figure that one out.


Turntable outputs aren’t balanced.


Mine are.



Really? TRS or XLR?
That's certainly not common... What do you use to unbalance them before your amplifier?
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.

Cowsham
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Joined: 4 Nov 2019, 1:33pm

Re: Vinyl -> digital

Postby Cowsham » 10 Sep 2020, 9:28pm

[XAP]Bob wrote:
Cowsham wrote:
[XAP]Bob wrote:
Turntable outputs aren’t balanced.


Mine are.



Really? TRS or XLR?
That's certainly not common... What do you use to unbalance them before your amplifier?


You don't have to have an xlr connection to have a balanced output -- by it's very nature a stylus has a balanced output mine has phono out but the grounds are not connected with themselves or the ground of the machine. Then brought to the amp via shielded twisted pair per side. The -"unbalancing " as you put it is done in the pre amp. This helps eliminate crosstalk and interference signals as they hit the matching tx in the pre amp.

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Si
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Re: Vinyl -> digital

Postby Si » 11 Sep 2020, 3:08pm

Afraid that for me a line level is a mini-spirit level that I use for stringing up sections :-) ....don't do technical!

Thus, I will try to describe what I was using (and will probably miss out the important bit as I don't know what I'm talking about): technics record dec connected to technics amp via a set of cables and an earth lead. Amp connected to PC via a cable coming out of the phono jack and going into the Mic hole. With audacity installed on the PC.

If I unplug the cable from the phono jack and put head phones in then the quality sounds OK.
If I connect the cable between the Mic on the PC and the headphone hole on my tablet and record onto audacity then the quality sounds OK.
But if I do it from deck->amp->PC->audacity then there is hiss and muffling.
The PC's sound card is whatever bog standard thing that came with the PC, and was not advertised as anything special.

Anyway, thanks for all the advise - much appreciated. I will reread it all and have another go the next time I am off on hols and have time and room to set the system up again.

rjb
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Re: Vinyl -> digital

Postby rjb » 11 Sep 2020, 3:25pm

Feeding you amp into your mic socket on the pc (usually colour coded pink) means you may be overloading it with too much signal. If you have a line input (colour coded light blue), usually a 3.5mm stereo jack socket that would be a better match. Sometimes the microphone inputs on your PC may have 2 issues, 1) it may be a mono input only and 2) it may not have a flat frequency response as it is corrected expecting a microphone. You may need an external adaptor like this https://www.behringer.com/product.html?modelCode=P0A31 about £20. They even make one which you can plug a cartridge into from your turntable bypassing your amp. https://www.behringer.com/product.html?modelCode=P0A12. Both with usb outputs.
I use the 222 version to transfer my vinyls into digital versions using software like audiograbber or audacity or whatever you are familiar with.
Nothings ever simple. :wink:
theres lots of u tube videos showing how to do this. Worth a look first.
https://www.google.com/search?biw=1366& ... S6r6hQSbJU
At the last count:- Peugeot 531 pro, Dawes Discovery Tandem, Dawes Kingpin, Raleigh 20, Falcon K2 MTB dropped bar tourer, Longstaff trike conversion on a Falcon corsa. :D

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[XAP]Bob
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Re: Vinyl -> digital

Postby [XAP]Bob » 11 Sep 2020, 10:56pm

Mic hole is almost certainly the issue.

You’ll only get mono anyway.

A cheap USB audio device will save you hours of grief.
If you really want to push the boat out then Behringer do one for ~£20, we use a pair for a radio station for 8 weeks continuous usage each Christmas (well, 4-6 in a training studio, then 4 in the main studio).
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.

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[XAP]Bob
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Re: Vinyl -> digital

Postby [XAP]Bob » 13 Sep 2020, 2:25pm

Cowsham wrote:
[XAP]Bob wrote:
Cowsham wrote:
Mine are.



Really? TRS or XLR?
That's certainly not common... What do you use to unbalance them before your amplifier?


You don't have to have an xlr connection to have a balanced output -- by it's very nature a stylus has a balanced output mine has phono out but the grounds are not connected with themselves or the ground of the machine. Then brought to the amp via shielded twisted pair per side. The -"unbalancing " as you put it is done in the pre amp. This helps eliminate crosstalk and interference signals as they hit the matching tx in the pre amp.


I'd suggest that's a relatively rare setup, I've never seen any setup use twisted pair for their RCA - RCA phono connections.
I'm also far more used to fully screened and balanced audio (i.e. the professional end of balanced audio - most turntables and amp inputs I've seen/used have been grounded at at least one end...
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.