Gang of six-impact on Xmas

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pwa
Posts: 13876
Joined: 2 Oct 2011, 8:55pm

Re: Gang of six-impact on Xmas

Postby pwa » 19 Sep 2020, 7:46pm

Syd wrote:
pwa wrote:
Manc33 wrote:
The evidence for this virus is not based in science though. Science involves a dependent and an independent variable, but how can that apply when the testing is skewed from the outset - that is, they are testing for something that's always present in all our bodies all our lives, then claiming to have diagnosed people with something when they find it. That's not science.

Well something filled the hospital my son was working in during April. Are you saying it was something else?

If enough people ignore Covid we will have a proper Lockdown to endure over Christmas.

And idiotic actions such as this doesn’t help.

Coronavirus: 'Rule-breaking Bolton pub crawl' saw cases rise https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-m ... r-54205353


Yep, one right idiot sets a whole town back.

We are heading for a firmer and deeper lockdown and it is being delivered by the idiots (trying to keep my language civilised) who can't or won't exercise a bit of restraint.
Last edited by pwa on 19 Sep 2020, 7:49pm, edited 1 time in total.

Manc33
Posts: 1716
Joined: 25 Apr 2015, 9:37pm

Re: Gang of six-impact on Xmas

Postby Manc33 » 19 Sep 2020, 7:49pm

pwa wrote:Well something filled the hospital my son was working in during April. Are you saying it was something else?


People playing it safe, assuming any little sniffle they have got must be coronavirus because the TV told them to worry.

Jdsk wrote:What's the "something", please?


Coronavirus.

It's the same thing with cancer, we all have cancer cells in our bodies our entire lives, but we're always fighting it off. In theory, if they wanted to pull a scam on everyone with cancer, they could test for cancer and say "Yup, cancer cells are there". The thing is they aren't pulling a scam like that with cancer, because they'd never get away with it, cancer is known about and known to always exist in people's bodies, whereas coronavirus is some new fancy thing they have just claimed is a threat.
When two cyclists get married, they should throw anodized cable crimps instead of confetti.

pwa
Posts: 13876
Joined: 2 Oct 2011, 8:55pm

Re: Gang of six-impact on Xmas

Postby pwa » 19 Sep 2020, 7:51pm

Manc33 wrote:
pwa wrote:Well something filled the hospital my son was working in during April. Are you saying it was something else?


People playing it safe, assuming any little sniffle they have got must be coronavirus because the TV told them to worry.

.

Well a lot finished up in wooden boxes which is a strange way of playing it safe.

Ben@Forest
Posts: 2822
Joined: 28 Jan 2013, 5:58pm

Re: Gang of six-impact on Xmas

Postby Ben@Forest » 19 Sep 2020, 7:51pm

pwa wrote:Well something filled the hospital my son was working in during April. Are you saying it was something else?

If enough people ignore Covid we will have a proper Lockdown to endure over Christmas.


The last 'proper lockdown' didn't work though, and despite a few transgressions people adhered to it. Certainly British citizens acted no worse than citizens of many other countries. Why will another 'proper lockdown' work?

It also appears that the difference in deaths in two countries that have taken different approaches hasn't been that stark. The USA has suffered 70 deaths per 100,000, Sweden 57 per 100,000 (according to various experts on the Jeremy Vine programme last week).

Covid exists. But beyond allowing the NHS time to deal with casualties lockdown doesn't appear to be anything like a strategy. It's a short-term kneejerk reaction for politicians to look like they're doing something.

Jdsk
Posts: 5951
Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: Gang of six-impact on Xmas

Postby Jdsk » 19 Sep 2020, 7:52pm

Manc33 wrote:
Jdsk wrote:What's the "something", please?

Coronavirus.

Thanks.

Are you saying that SARS-CoV-2 was "always present in all our bodies all our lives"?

Jonathan
Last edited by Jdsk on 19 Sep 2020, 10:17pm, edited 1 time in total.

Jdsk
Posts: 5951
Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: Gang of six-impact on Xmas

Postby Jdsk » 19 Sep 2020, 7:55pm

Manc33 wrote:It's the same thing with cancer, we all have cancer cells in our bodies our entire lives, but we're always fighting it off.

Do you mean "cancer cells" or oncogenes?

And if the former what's the evidence, please?

Thanks

Jonathan

pwa
Posts: 13876
Joined: 2 Oct 2011, 8:55pm

Re: Gang of six-impact on Xmas

Postby pwa » 19 Sep 2020, 8:00pm

Ben@Forest wrote:
pwa wrote:Well something filled the hospital my son was working in during April. Are you saying it was something else?

If enough people ignore Covid we will have a proper Lockdown to endure over Christmas.


The last 'proper lockdown' didn't work though, and despite a few transgressions people adhered to it. Certainly British citizens acted no worse than citizens of many other countries. Why will another 'proper lockdown' work?

It also appears that the difference in deaths in two countries that have taken different approaches hasn't been that stark. The USA has suffered 70 deaths per 100,000, Sweden 57 per 100,000 (according to various experts on the Jeremy Vine programme last week).

Covid exists. But beyond allowing the NHS time to deal with casualties lockdown doesn't appear to be anything like a strategy. It's a short-term kneejerk reaction for politicians to look like they're doing something.


The lockdown was the only tool in the bag at that time. We didn't have the testing capacity of some nations, notably Germany. And yes, it did work in the way it was meant to, as a way of suppressing the virus long enough to allow us to become better equipped. It was acknowledged that lifting the lockdown would see rates rise, which they duly did, but until we have the hoped for vaccines we need to maintain some measures to contain it. We all have a part to play in that. And if the great majority act responsibly the need for heavy handed restrictions will be minimised.

Jdsk
Posts: 5951
Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: Gang of six-impact on Xmas

Postby Jdsk » 19 Sep 2020, 8:02pm

Yes.

But it may not have been the imposed lockdown that initially reduced transmission. There is some evidence that behaviour changed before the Government (finally) responded.

Jonathan

Ben@Forest
Posts: 2822
Joined: 28 Jan 2013, 5:58pm

Re: Gang of six-impact on Xmas

Postby Ben@Forest » 19 Sep 2020, 8:23pm

pwa wrote:The lockdown was the only tool in the bag at that time. We didn't have the testing capacity of some nations, notably Germany. And yes, it did work in the way it was meant to, as a way of suppressing the virus long enough to allow us to become better equipped. It was acknowledged that lifting the lockdown would see rates rise, which they duly did, but until we have the hoped for vaccines we need to maintain some measures to contain it. We all have a part to play in that. And if the great majority act responsibly the need for heavy handed restrictions will be minimised.


Waiting for a vaccine is not a strategy. I don't know why we aren't able to test the way other nations are but in the convoluted world of reporting statistics it's difficult to know what to believe. One news report today says that one third of UK Covid deaths in July or August were people who died principally because of other conditions. They could have easily died from pneumonia or the flu and no-one would have raised an eyebrow. And l heard a similar view from an NHS doctor months ago.

We are still acting with restraint. How many people in shops don't wear facemasks? How many have not clamoured for foreign holidays or open sports stadia? Whatever the right answer is it isn't more restrictions.

landsurfer
Posts: 5307
Joined: 27 Oct 2012, 9:13pm

Re: Gang of six-impact on Xmas

Postby landsurfer » 19 Sep 2020, 8:26pm

I've been at work every day since the 23rd of March.
Not working from home ...
Every working day .. apart from the 2 weeks in Cornwall with the children on holiday in August.
Everyone of you that calls for greater lockdowns, more separation, more draconian measures to "defeat" C-19 ...
I take it you still want me to go to work ....
Food on your tables, transport, I take it you want that .. ?

As long as you don't have to do it ........ after all your "shielding" ...

Every one of you that clapped for the NHS ... did you clap for the men and women working in ALDI ? ...

No you didn't ...

On Tuesday another raft of pointless restrictions will be announced, and you will all be in favour of them ...

As long as I keep going to work .... while you hide away ......
Be More Mike.
The Road Goes On Forever

Jdsk
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Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: Gang of six-impact on Xmas

Postby Jdsk » 19 Sep 2020, 8:29pm

Ben@Forest wrote:I don't know why we aren't able to test the way other nations are...

I do.

Jonathan

Manc33
Posts: 1716
Joined: 25 Apr 2015, 9:37pm

Re: Gang of six-impact on Xmas

Postby Manc33 » 19 Sep 2020, 8:44pm

pwa wrote:Well a lot finished up in wooden boxes which is a strange way of playing it safe.


At the same time as deaths from other things like heart attacks and so on, magically reduced. They just put the cause down as covid and were even told to do that. There's also cash incentives involved. In the US I think it was $39,000 per person or something like that, if they died from covid.
When two cyclists get married, they should throw anodized cable crimps instead of confetti.

Jdsk
Posts: 5951
Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: Gang of six-impact on Xmas

Postby Jdsk » 19 Sep 2020, 8:46pm

Manc33 wrote:At the same time as deaths from other things like heart attacks and so on, magically reduced. They just put the cause down as covid and were even told to do that.

Please could you explain the excess death statistics in the UK. They don't depend on classification by cause.

Thanks

Jonathan

Jdsk
Posts: 5951
Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: Gang of six-impact on Xmas

Postby Jdsk » 19 Sep 2020, 8:53pm

Manc33 wrote:In the US I think it was $39,000 per person or something like that, if they died from covid.

Are you confusing the Medicare payment for treatment with something to do with death?
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/medicare-hospitals-covid-patients/
https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/04/24/fact-check-medicare-hospitals-paid-more-covid-19-patients-coronavirus/3000638001/

Thanks

Jonathan

Manc33
Posts: 1716
Joined: 25 Apr 2015, 9:37pm

Re: Gang of six-impact on Xmas

Postby Manc33 » 19 Sep 2020, 9:25pm

Excess deaths? It was flu season.

Jdsk wrote:
Manc33 wrote:In the US I think it was $39,000 per person or something like that, if they died from covid.

Are you confusing the Medicare payment for treatment with something to do with death?
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/medicare-hospitals-covid-patients/
https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/04/24/fact-check-medicare-hospitals-paid-more-covid-19-patients-coronavirus/3000638001/

Thanks

Jonathan


There was an incentive to say people have got coronavirus so my original point still stands.
<SNIP>
When two cyclists get married, they should throw anodized cable crimps instead of confetti.