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Re: Gang of six-impact on Xmas

Posted: 16 Sep 2020, 2:16pm
by Jdsk
landsurfer wrote:If more people die of cancer because they have abandoned by the NHS in their pursuit of C-19 what is the point of any of this.

Interesting wording. Are you saying that the NHS has abandoned people?

Jonathan

Re: Gang of six-impact on Xmas

Posted: 16 Sep 2020, 2:19pm
by landsurfer
Jdsk wrote:
Fortunately we do now have competent population surveillance programmes up and running.




What would that be ... Track and Trace ... :lol: :lol:
Covid Marshals .. :lol:
C-19 Testing .... do you read the press

The Mets multi billion face recognition system .... switched off now the sheeple are wearing masks.

Re: Gang of six-impact on Xmas

Posted: 16 Sep 2020, 2:22pm
by Jdsk
I was referring to the ONS and the Imperial population surveillance programmes, not anything clinical.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/news/news/onsjointlyleadinggovernmentslargescalevirusinfectionandantibodyteststudy

https://www.imperial.nhs.uk/about-us/news/largest-home-antibody-testing-publishes-results

Jonathan

PS:
landsurfer wrote:C-19 Testing .... do you read the press

I keep an eye on it. But I read every original paper on the subject having worked in related fields for 30y and still teaching it.

Re: Gang of six-impact on Xmas

Posted: 16 Sep 2020, 2:25pm
by landsurfer
Jdsk wrote:
landsurfer wrote:If more people die of cancer because they have abandoned by the NHS in their pursuit of C-19 what is the point of any of this.

Interesting wording. Are you saying that the NHS has abandoned people?

Jonathan


Yes ....... Only because 2 close friends in the NHS ( medical imaging, palliative care and oncology ) use that phrase with a heavy heart.
And our dear friend Diane has seen her stage 4 cancer now diagnosed as terminal as scan after scan and appointment after appointment where rescheduled and cancelled ....

Believe who ever's truth you wish ... and watch young friends die ..........

Re: Gang of six-impact on Xmas

Posted: 16 Sep 2020, 2:33pm
by Jdsk
The NHS hasn't "abandoned" people: that implies intention.

There have been enormous problems with capacity and resources. And there still are.

Prioritisation of cases has been attempted as usual. I have a friend with cancer who has been diagnosed and started on treatment since the start of the outbreak. I was talking to a dermatologist last week who summarised the position as the suspected cancer stream working about as usual, but everything else greatly delayed.

Unfortunately we went into the outbreak with very long waiting times and deteriorating performance figures. That was a political choice.

Jonathan

Re: Gang of six-impact on Xmas

Posted: 16 Sep 2020, 2:43pm
by DaveBeck
Jdsk wrote:
DaveBeck wrote:Below is the list found on GOV.UK, detailing the sports and activities that are exempt from the 6 people limit. It's interesting to note, that despite cycling being recommended as one of the permitted daily exercises six months ago, that it hasn't made it's way onto the official list now. I wonder why if caving is on there for example, Cycle UK and British Cycling have gone along with the limit of six, rather than the upper limit of 15, or even 30 participants?

Statement from Cycling UK, 14 September:
https://www.cyclinguk.org/article/coronavirus-qa-it-safe-cycle

Jonathan


To me that just makes the advice more confusing,as cycling is not on the official list. Imagine the poor police officer trying to decide whether they fine you or not, My professional insurance is through Cycle UK, so I don't really know if I had six plus me, whether that would invalidate the insurance or not.

It would be interesting to know who the Government consult with, British Cycling, Cycle UK, or both.

Dave

Re: Gang of six-impact on Xmas

Posted: 16 Sep 2020, 2:45pm
by Jdsk
Yes.

I was going to ask Cycling UK, but then I found that statement and decided to wait for comments here.

Jonathan

Re: Gang of six-impact on Xmas

Posted: 16 Sep 2020, 5:01pm
by pwa
landsurfer wrote:
pwa wrote:C19 deaths have been kept so low by severely restricting personal freedom and by crippling businesses. Without those extraordinary measures, which have a heavy cost, the number of dead would be several times higher. You and I have not seen what Covid 19 would have done, and might still do, without those measures. I agree that C19 mortality is very low right now. If it did not have the potential to increase greatly it would indeed be just one of the numerous ways to die.

C19 also has the potential to over-fill our hospitals and render them unable to deal with other conditions. If we let this epidemic run out of control we will reduce our ability to deal with cancer, heart disease and any other life-limiting condition we can think of. Surely that on its own means we have to suppress C19 to the point where hospitals are not overly burdened with it.

And it doesn't just kill Granny. I personally know of two families locally where there are children with conditions that make them very much at risk. To keep them relatively safe, each family has had to isolate. The children themselves, their siblings and parents. And they live in very understandable fear of what one small slip-up could cost them. For their sake we have to keep C19 incidence in communities low.

We all have to exercise some responsibility here. I know of four people locally who have had a Covid test in the last week. Two of them are my son and his partner, both turned out to be negative but they did the right thing and isolated while they awaited the result. The other two are a mother and her daughter, who had the test then carried on life as they had before while they awaited the result. Mum went to work and her daughter went to school, knowing there was a doubt over their status! They were positive, so the girl's entire year group at school is now in isolation! You couldn't make it up!


But it doesn't matter how many millions of people get infected if no one dies, or deaths are below the background noise of life itself.
If more people die of cancer because they have abandoned by the NHS in their pursuit of C-19 what is the point of any of this.

The ONS are publishing death data from summer flu as being x10 higher than C-19 ... Then winter flu will start and deaths will be like last year and the year before .... and still we will be paralysed by a virus that has harvested the low lying fruit ....

Still at a loss ..... and i expect i will continue to be .... I suppose when state pensions are cut by half to pay for C-19 there may some changes of position ...

I think you are still missing my main point though. Covid deaths, at only sixty odd thousand, are comparable to deaths from other causes, I agree, but only because of the extraordinary and expensive measures we have taken. If we had not done that we could have been looking at 300,000 dead by now, and think what that would have done to the Health Service. And it isn't very sensitive to refer to people with conditions such as MS as "low lying fruit".

Re: Gang of six-impact on Xmas

Posted: 16 Sep 2020, 9:17pm
by Navara
I'm now going to invite 26 people to join us 4 on Xmas day.
We have 4 guns here(3 rifles and a pistol) and if anyone says anything we're having a shoot.There's always Magpies,Pigeons and Squirrels in the back garden :mrgreen:
They won't have to wear masks either because they'll be on my property/land that I will be shortly declaring as The Free State of Navaria 8)

Re: Gang of six-impact on Xmas

Posted: 17 Sep 2020, 8:30am
by tim-b
Hi
But it doesn't matter how many millions of people get infected if no one dies, or deaths are below the background noise of life itself.
If more people die of cancer because they have abandoned by the NHS in their pursuit of C-19 what is the point of any of this.

Isn't that the point? If millions get infected and a proportion then have to be treated in hospitals because their condition is immediately life-threatening then that does matter. The NHS has to turn resources, staff, beds, etc to preventing imminent C19 deaths and other services will inevitably suffer
I don't get the selfishness allegedly shown by some (link) Is it any wonder that the Government is having to be more impactive at home?
Regards
tim-b

Re: Gang of six-impact on Xmas

Posted: 17 Sep 2020, 8:52am
by landsurfer
tim-b wrote:Hi
But it doesn't matter how many millions of people get infected if no one dies, or deaths are below the background noise of life itself.
If more people die of cancer because they have abandoned by the NHS in their pursuit of C-19 what is the point of any of this.

Isn't that the point? If millions get infected and a proportion then have to be treated in hospitals because their condition is immediately life-threatening then that does matter. The NHS has to turn resources, staff, beds, etc to preventing imminent C19 deaths and other services will inevitably suffer
I don't get the selfishness allegedly shown by some (link) Is it any wonder that the Government is having to be more impactive at home?
Regards
tim-b


The proportion is tiny... tiny .... hospitals empty ... ward after ward empty .... by the NHS's own admission .... 10,000 new "cases".. 4 people in hospital, no deaths ..... thats whats happening ...

Re: Gang of six-impact on Xmas

Posted: 17 Sep 2020, 10:32am
by pete75
Under the new rules - group of 7 children feeding ducks is illegal, group of 30 men shooting ducks is legal.

Re: Gang of six-impact on Xmas

Posted: 17 Sep 2020, 11:02am
by Cowsham
mumbojumbo wrote:There is a lot of hot air espoused by die-hard libertatarians,the sort who plead freedom and then moan about workers forming unions,taking industrial actiion and other activities considered iliberal.I think they have a point about Christmas.It will SPOIL Cheristmas,and here uis why

1.we will be unable toi have our neighbours,the Sowerby-Frosts to dinner,to apologise for playing music cloud,as we have three sons to the table
2.carol-singing sucks with five singers
3.there will be no communion
4.all the pubs will be less crowded on Xmas Eve,meaning places to sit
5.queueing longer in shops to buy sprouts which may even sekl out.
Will you still manage a great time?


6. And with alk that extra fooid your fingers wuill get reven fatter -- confused? You will be.

https://youtu.be/CxeE8h5LNNc

Re: Gang of six-impact on Xmas

Posted: 17 Sep 2020, 11:23am
by Syd
landsurfer wrote:
tim-b wrote:Hi
But it doesn't matter how many millions of people get infected if no one dies, or deaths are below the background noise of life itself.
If more people die of cancer because they have abandoned by the NHS in their pursuit of C-19 what is the point of any of this.

Isn't that the point? If millions get infected and a proportion then have to be treated in hospitals because their condition is immediately life-threatening then that does matter. The NHS has to turn resources, staff, beds, etc to preventing imminent C19 deaths and other services will inevitably suffer
I don't get the selfishness allegedly shown by some (link) Is it any wonder that the Government is having to be more impactive at home?
Regards
tim-b


The proportion is tiny... tiny .... hospitals empty ... ward after ward empty .... by the NHS's own admission .... 10,000 new "cases".. 4 people in hospital, no deaths ..... thats whats happening ...

During the first peak we had patients being ventilated non-optimally on anaesthetic machines, which differ to ICU vents in many ways.

The lockdown brought those numbers into controllable levels.

What are you suggesting? We let everyone now run around as if nothing has happened? After all there is only 4 people in hospital at present?

Case numbers will rise, as will hospital admissions, as will deaths if that it done.

Re: Gang of six-impact on Xmas

Posted: 17 Sep 2020, 11:30am
by Navara
Syd wrote:
The lockdown brought those numbers into controllable levels. Absolutely no evidence to suggest this.

What are you suggesting? We let everyone now run around as if nothing has happened? After all there is only 4 people in hospital at present? Yes that makes perfect sense and is exactly what needs to happen

Case numbers will rise, as will hospital admissions, as will deaths if that it done.That is doubtful at best.The total opposite of what is actually happening


You are merely falling for the continued fearmongering being spread by the media.