Gang of six-impact on Xmas

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Jdsk
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Re: Gang of six-impact on Xmas

Postby Jdsk » 17 Sep 2020, 11:33am

Navara wrote:
Syd wrote:Case numbers will rise, as will hospital admissions, as will deaths if that it done.That is doubtful at best.The total opposite of what is actually happening

Are you saying that true case numbers aren't increasing at the moment?

Thanks

Jonathan

PS: Using colours like that in others' quotes is vey confusing. After one further quote it becomes impossible to see who said what.

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Syd
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Re: Gang of six-impact on Xmas

Postby Syd » 17 Sep 2020, 11:47am

Navara wrote:
Syd wrote:
The lockdown brought those numbers into controllable levels. Absolutely no evidence to suggest this.

What are you suggesting? We let everyone now run around as if nothing has happened? After all there is only 4 people in hospital at present? Yes that makes perfect sense and is exactly what needs to happen

Case numbers will rise, as will hospital admissions, as will deaths if that it done.That is doubtful at best.The total opposite of what is actually happening


You are merely falling for the continued fearmongering being spread by the media.

Come and do my job for a day and then say it is still fearmongerimg.

pete75
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Re: Gang of six-impact on Xmas

Postby pete75 » 17 Sep 2020, 1:31pm

Syd wrote:
Navara wrote:
Syd wrote:
The lockdown brought those numbers into controllable levels. Absolutely no evidence to suggest this.

What are you suggesting? We let everyone now run around as if nothing has happened? After all there is only 4 people in hospital at present? Yes that makes perfect sense and is exactly what needs to happen

Case numbers will rise, as will hospital admissions, as will deaths if that it done.That is doubtful at best.The total opposite of what is actually happening


You are merely falling for the continued fearmongering being spread by the media.

Come and do my job for a day and then say it is still fearmongerimg.


What is your job?

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Syd
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Re: Gang of six-impact on Xmas

Postby Syd » 17 Sep 2020, 1:44pm

pete75 wrote:
Syd wrote:
Navara wrote:
You are merely falling for the continued fearmongering being spread by the media.

Come and do my job for a day and then say it is still fearmongerimg.


What is your job?

Suffice to say I work within the NHS and have spent the past 6 months in planning meetings with national bodies and government.

pete75
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Re: Gang of six-impact on Xmas

Postby pete75 » 17 Sep 2020, 2:33pm

Syd wrote:
pete75 wrote:
Syd wrote:Come and do my job for a day and then say it is still fearmongerimg.


What is your job?

Suffice to say I work within the NHS and have spent the past 6 months in planning meetings with national bodies and government.

Are you a clinician or just a management/admin type person?

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Syd
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Gang of six-impact on Xmas

Postby Syd » 17 Sep 2020, 2:36pm

Neither but please don’t be derogatory about admin / management They are not a ‘just’.

pete75
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Re: Gang of six-impact on Xmas

Postby pete75 » 17 Sep 2020, 2:52pm

pwa wrote:C19 deaths have been kept so low by severely restricting personal freedom and by crippling businesses. Without those extraordinary measures, which have a heavy cost, the number of dead would be several times higher. You and I have not seen what Covid 19 would have done, and might still do, without those measures. I agree that C19 mortality is very low right now. If it did not have the potential to increase greatly it would indeed be just one of the numerous ways to die.


So low? Britain has the highest number of deaths in Europe. It's over four times that of Germany. Admittedly Germany is a richer and more advanced nation but not vastly more so. What it does have is an able and competent leader. She also has a doctorate in Chemistry so is well able to understand the science behind the fight against C19.

Jdsk
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Re: Gang of six-impact on Xmas

Postby Jdsk » 17 Sep 2020, 2:52pm

Syd wrote:Neither but please don’t be derogatory about admin / management They are not a ‘just’.

Yes.

Jonathan

Tangled Metal
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Re: Gang of six-impact on Xmas

Postby Tangled Metal » 17 Sep 2020, 2:59pm

Anyone read about the consequences of getting covid 19 ? I think there are some serious long term ones to worry about some only seen in kids!!

It's certainly not the same as ordinary flu in that respect.

pwa
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Re: Gang of six-impact on Xmas

Postby pwa » 17 Sep 2020, 3:00pm

pete75 wrote:
pwa wrote:C19 deaths have been kept so low by severely restricting personal freedom and by crippling businesses. Without those extraordinary measures, which have a heavy cost, the number of dead would be several times higher. You and I have not seen what Covid 19 would have done, and might still do, without those measures. I agree that C19 mortality is very low right now. If it did not have the potential to increase greatly it would indeed be just one of the numerous ways to die.


So low? Britain has the highest number of deaths in Europe. It's over four times that of Germany. Admittedly Germany is a richer and more advanced nation but not vastly more so. What it does have is an able and competent leader. She also has a doctorate in Chemistry so is well able to understand the science behind the fight against C19.


"So low" in comparison to what it would have been without extraordinary measures. I agree that had we had the testing capacity Germany already had at the start, we could have done better. But you start from where you are, not where you would like to be.

Tangled Metal
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Re: Gang of six-impact on Xmas

Postby Tangled Metal » 17 Sep 2020, 3:02pm

pete75 wrote:
pwa wrote:C19 deaths have been kept so low by severely restricting personal freedom and by crippling businesses. Without those extraordinary measures, which have a heavy cost, the number of dead would be several times higher. You and I have not seen what Covid 19 would have done, and might still do, without those measures. I agree that C19 mortality is very low right now. If it did not have the potential to increase greatly it would indeed be just one of the numerous ways to die.


So low? Britain has the highest number of deaths in Europe. It's over four times that of Germany. Admittedly Germany is a richer and more advanced nation but not vastly more so. What it does have is an able and competent leader. She also has a doctorate in Chemistry so is well able to understand the science behind the fight against C19.

Chemistry isn't the same as epidemiology or virology. Next you'll be saying Boris knows about African history / culture because he's a classics scholar.

What is it about people's relationship with STEM that they keep lumping them all in together?

Jdsk
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Re: Gang of six-impact on Xmas

Postby Jdsk » 17 Sep 2020, 3:06pm

Tangled Metal wrote:Anyone read about the consequences of getting covid 19 ?

Overview of "Long Covid":
https://www.bmj.com/content/370/bmj.m2815

Tangled Metal wrote:... only seen in kids!!

Yes, there are some different serious complications reported in children but they're very rare. The least uncommon might be a Kawasaki-like syndrome:
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2767209

Jonathan

Jdsk
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Re: Gang of six-impact on Xmas

Postby Jdsk » 17 Sep 2020, 3:09pm

Tangled Metal wrote:
pete75 wrote:So low? Britain has the highest number of deaths in Europe. It's over four times that of Germany. Admittedly Germany is a richer and more advanced nation but not vastly more so. What it does have is an able and competent leader. She also has a doctorate in Chemistry so is well able to understand the science behind the fight against C19.

Chemistry isn't the same as epidemiology or virology.

Sure, but there's a body of reasoning that is highly consistent across science: numeracy, statistical analysis, evidence-based methods etc.

Jonathan

Cowsham
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Re: Gang of six-impact on Xmas

Postby Cowsham » 17 Sep 2020, 10:24pm

Tangled Metal wrote:
It's certainly not the same as ordinary flu in that respect.


It's not even a flu, it's got much more in common with the common cold but much more deadly if your immune system reacts to it in a certain way. Trouble is you won't know how your system reacts until you get it. A vaccine is hard to manufacture and test.

pete75
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Re: Gang of six-impact on Xmas

Postby pete75 » 17 Sep 2020, 10:25pm

Syd wrote:Neither but please don’t be derogatory about admin / management They are not a ‘just’.


That's how my mother, a nurse for almost 40 years, referred to them. I've no reason to doubt what she said.