Breaking International Law

Use this board for general non-cycling-related chat, or to introduce yourself to the forum.
reohn2
Posts: 45158
Joined: 26 Jun 2009, 8:21pm

Re: Breaking International Law

Post by reohn2 »

It just gets worse dunnit?
-----------------------------------------------------------
"All we are not stares back at what we are"
W H Auden
francovendee
Posts: 3148
Joined: 5 May 2009, 6:32am

Re: Breaking International Law

Post by francovendee »

Paulatic wrote:Isn’t this the bill Gove said he would stand down if the government backed down?

Quite possibly but you are talking about Gove. He's a lying squirming bar steward so nothing he says can be trusted.
reohn2
Posts: 45158
Joined: 26 Jun 2009, 8:21pm

Re: Breaking International Law

Post by reohn2 »

francovendee wrote:
Paulatic wrote:Isn’t this the bill Gove said he would stand down if the government backed down?

Quite possibly but you are talking about Gove. He's a lying squirming bar steward so nothing he says can be trusted.

He's not alone among that lot,the words nest and vipers,springs readily to mind :?
-----------------------------------------------------------
"All we are not stares back at what we are"
W H Auden
Oldjohnw
Posts: 7764
Joined: 16 Oct 2018, 4:23am
Location: South Warwickshire

Re: Breaking International Law

Post by Oldjohnw »

Comes to something when we think a Government deciding not to break the law is something to celebrate.
John
Jdsk
Posts: 24639
Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: Breaking International Law

Post by Jdsk »

reohn2 wrote:
francovendee wrote:
Paulatic wrote:Isn’t this the bill Gove said he would stand down if the government backed down?

Quite possibly but you are talking about Gove. He's a lying squirming bar steward so nothing he says can be trusted.

He's not alone among that lot,the words nest and vipers,springs readily to mind :?

That's a bit snakist. Vipers are superbly competent.

: - )

Jonathan
reohn2
Posts: 45158
Joined: 26 Jun 2009, 8:21pm

Re: Breaking International Law

Post by reohn2 »

Jdsk wrote:
reohn2 wrote:
francovendee wrote:Quite possibly but you are talking about Gove. He's a lying squirming bar steward so nothing he says can be trusted.

He's not alone among that lot,the words nest and vipers,springs readily to mind :?

That's a bit snakist. Vipers are superbly competent.

: - )

Jonathan

I'm quite prejudiced at times :shock: :wink:
-----------------------------------------------------------
"All we are not stares back at what we are"
W H Auden
Jdsk
Posts: 24639
Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: Breaking International Law

Post by Jdsk »

This one's retained EU law rather than international law...

Screenshot 2021-02-01 at 14.59.48.png

https://drive.google.com/file/d/12HFRmmdMUkJdwyCRiiItOV5F4IgpDIVQ/view

This is the challenge to the attempt to bypass Parliament by using Henry VIII powers:
https://goodlawproject.org/news/relegating-parliament/

Please consider donating.

Jonathan
Jdsk
Posts: 24639
Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: Breaking International Law

Post by Jdsk »

"Following the UK government's statement today, Vice-President Šefčovič has expressed the EU's strong concerns over the UK's unilateral action, as this amounts to a violation of the relevant substantive provisions of the Protocol on Ireland/Northern Ireland and the good faith obligation under the Withdrawal Agreement. This is the second time that the UK government is set to breach international law."
https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/STATEMENT_21_1018

and the UK's response, includes:
"Lord Frost explained that the measures announced today, following official-level notification to the Commission earlier this week, were temporary technical steps, which largely continued measures already in place, to provide more time for businesses such as supermarkets and parcel operators to adapt to and implement the new requirements in the Protocol."
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/lord-frost-call-with-european-commission-vice-president-maros-sefcovic-3-march-2021

Jonathan
Psamathe
Posts: 17650
Joined: 10 Jan 2014, 8:56pm

Re: Breaking International Law

Post by Psamathe »

Jdsk wrote:"Following the UK government's statement today, Vice-President Šefčovič has expressed the EU's strong concerns over the UK's unilateral action, as this amounts to a violation of the relevant substantive provisions of the Protocol on Ireland/Northern Ireland and the good faith obligation under the Withdrawal Agreement. This is the second time that the UK government is set to breach international law."
https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/STATEMENT_21_1018

and the UK's response, includes:
"Lord Frost explained that the measures announced today, following official-level notification to the Commission earlier this week, were temporary technical steps, which largely continued measures already in place, to provide more time for businesses such as supermarkets and parcel operators to adapt to and implement the new requirements in the Protocol."
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/lord-frost-call-with-european-commission-vice-president-maros-sefcovic-3-march-2021

Jonathan

After UK/Westminster behaviour over the last few years would you agree/sign a treaty with the UK? The Westminster incumbents don't seem to understand that an agreement does not mean you just unilaterally do what you want whenever you want (and you can bet they'd be up in arms in no time at-all were e.g. the EU to do the equivalent).

Ian
Oldjohnw
Posts: 7764
Joined: 16 Oct 2018, 4:23am
Location: South Warwickshire

Re: Breaking International Law

Post by Oldjohnw »

Remind me, which constituency elected Lord Frost.

What! You mean he’s an unelected bureaucrat? I thought we’d dumped them.
John
Ben@Forest
Posts: 3647
Joined: 28 Jan 2013, 5:58pm

Re: Breaking International Law

Post by Ben@Forest »

Psamathe wrote:After UK/Westminster behaviour over the last few years would you agree/sign a treaty with the UK? The Westminster incumbents don't seem to understand that an agreement does not mean you just unilaterally do what you want whenever you want (and you can bet they'd be up in arms in no time at-all were e.g. the EU to do the equivalent).


Because they'd never propose using Article 16 of the Northern Ireland protocol that unilaterally suspends parts of the Brexit treaty – to prevent vaccines being exported out of the EU into the UK and elsewhere. Oh... hold on..... :wink:

And actors within the EU frequently take unilateral action which is 'doing just what you want.' The most glaring example in recent years was Germany's open door policy of 2015 which broke the Dublin Regulation and annoyed Germany's neighbours who weren't keen on dealing with streams of people determinedly heading for Germany. One can argue the moral argument or not, but the EU was seriously upset.
Ben@Forest
Posts: 3647
Joined: 28 Jan 2013, 5:58pm

Re: Breaking International Law

Post by Ben@Forest »

Oldjohnw wrote:Remind me, which constituency elected Lord Frost.

What! You mean he’s an unelected bureaucrat? I thought we’d dumped them.


Nicola Sturgeon has the unelected Peter Murrell. Ditching him might cause a few ructions in the Sturgeon household... :wink:
Jdsk
Posts: 24639
Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: Breaking International Law

Post by Jdsk »

And the Loyalist Communities Council joins in:
"Loyalist paramilitary organisations have told British prime minister Boris Johnson they are withdrawing support for Northern Ireland’s historic peace agreement."
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/loyalist-paramilitary-groups-withdraw-support-for-belfast-agreement-1.4500982

Jonathan

PS: Can anyone find the letter rather than someone else's coverage of it, please?
Jdsk
Posts: 24639
Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: Breaking International Law

Post by Jdsk »

Ben@Forest wrote:Because they'd never propose using Article 16 of the Northern Ireland protocol that unilaterally suspends parts of the Brexit treaty – to prevent vaccines being exported out of the EU into the UK and elsewhere. Oh... hold on.....

1 There's quite a large difference between breaching a treaty and invoking an Article of a treaty

2 They didn't invoke it. (IMHO they realised how stupid it would be and gave up the idea within a few hours.)

Jonathan
Jdsk
Posts: 24639
Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: Breaking International Law

Post by Jdsk »

Oldjohnw wrote:Remind me, which constituency elected Lord Frost.

What! You mean he’s an unelected bureaucrat? I thought we’d dumped them.

I'm in favour of Ministers not being MPs. That would open up the talent pool, help us develop some genuine accountability to Parliament, and reduce the conflict of interests around career prospects and the payroll vote.

But only with that added accountability: without that this sort of appointment is even worse than usual.

Jonathan
Post Reply